How many people play Nexiuz?

[Dokujisan]

Well, what is the point of the points then?
The points are there to tell you what to do in the game.

For example...
Imagine if capturing the flag only scored 2 points.Then nobody would bother capturing the flag. Instead, they would just go around playing DM because it's not worth it to capture the flag.

Basically the scoring system is saying "do this because it scores more points"
That's part of the reason why people don't bother defending, because Nexuiz is telling them that it is not important to defend.

[Dokujisan]

Likewise, there are not special points awarded for protecting the flag carrier.
So people will pass up their own flag carrier and head to the enemy base to capture the next flag...because it scores more points.

[tZork]

Dont forget team dynamics ppl. just two ppl that works well togeter can be mutch more then the sum on their 'normal' points. Same thing goes the other way to, a well working team of not so experiances players *will* whop a team of unorganiced more experianced. To a certin point ofc, but relly the first-day-fresh-hatched-noob will experiance a learning curve, specialy if he/she is new to the gametype too.

And abt defense not beeing worth it.. now that just stupid. If you mean personal score, fine yes you wonr be on the top. If you feel the need for personal pwnage, i dont think team based games are not the right thing.. Sure there could be some more inteligent point system for defenging carriers or halting massive attacks etc. But frankly that would only make the score diffrance even bigger. its not the team with 90% of the players planlessly attacking that wins most of the time.

[Dokujisan]

So, you're basically saying that personal scores don't matter.

That raises the question: why are there personal scores in Nexuiz CTF at all?

Why not get rid of personal scores and just have a team score only?

My answer : Because people want to know how well they are doing. Evidently, the personal scoring system doesn't show that at all. You can't look at your personal score in the game and see how much value you are adding to your team. It's pretty much a broken scoring system, because it doesn't mean anything (the personal scores, that is).

Am I wrong?

[esteel]

I also have to disagree about defending being worthless. First of all you get 5 points for returning the flag + 1 for frag = 6 points. Sure it should not happen on each attack but its what defending is about and its very well possible to get many points. But there is talk about changing the points system after 2.3 (its being uploaded right now so its really too late )

On the other hand its a team game after all. Do people really expect they can go off to get the flag and be able to capture if noone is back and defends the flag? Similar the complains here that 1/2 guys on mental space with machines can make a capture impossible. Well that good defending. Thats really the strangest thing: on unbalanced teams there is hardly any defense on one side.. but instead of getting their lazy ass into the base to help defend people are even more likey to attack or complain about the bad teams.. From my experiance those massively unbalanced games are because of lacking (or bad) defense and its hard for an experiance player to really help then. Sometimes this will work out.. fine but for sure not always. And call my stuborn i still think the main point to improve this is to teach people how to play, not curse at unbalanced teams or think about fancy autobalancing stuff that IMO will never work out good enough to make a difference.

Well part of the problem is that we have very different opinions on the topic. I think too good of people.. i except them to play witfully, help others and act as a team just because its a team game. I know this is NOT the case but its how it should be. As tZork said the better team (or better part of a team) will win. Its fun to find 1. 2 or 3 players that you can join and play like a team. Were is the fun if you always have to defend on public matches just because the others do not defend? There are really times when i'm fed up with defending though i really like to do the job. Its nice wasting wave after wave of attackers but you need a good team if you want to switch and thus i can understand why good players team up. Similar if you are attacking you just need people to back you up. On good teams you can message your team 'attacking' wait 10 secs and there is someone to help. Or just have someone that clears your way back or snipers at enemies following you when you flie with the flag. In that regard i can understand people that rather team up and enjoy teamwork then to split, join the other and have to worry about your team mates

And sorry to say this but players switching teams just to 'show off' how bad the team balance is or to 'stop players from the dominating' team ARE JUST AS CRAP and maybe worse then unbalanced teams and IMO destroy the fun even more. If i ever happen to be on a server were you do this prepare to be kicked! (if i can do that on the server that is )

[Dokujisan]

First of all you get 5 points for returning the flag + 1 for frag = 6 points.

But, what if you are an even better defender and they don't even get the flag in the first place? The result is that you get fewer points? Does that make sense?

But there is talk about changing the points system after 2.3 (its being uploaded right now so its really too late )

Yay!

I'd like to be involved in the discussion on CTF personal score reform.

[esteel]

First of all you get 5 points for returning the flag + 1 for frag = 6 points.

But, what if you are an even better defender and they don't even get the flag in the first place? The result is that you get fewer points? Does that make sense?

Depends.. either you really are better then you can 'play' with them and allow them to grab the flag, Or you are not that much better then they WILL grab the flag a few times. Either way you keep them away for sake of the attackers so they can come back anytime and have a flag to capture.

And again is that really bad? In my CTF guide i wrote that its good to have three sorts of players, defenders, attackers and midfielders. Right now only the Attackers can score the really big points. So while it does not payoff immediately (on your personal scores) if you help them by defending or joining them, protecting them it will help your team as a whole.
And your changes will only work (IMO) if you have a seperate capture counter which determines which team does win. then you can try to rank up points and show off you skill . Without that your changes will basicly just make capturing unimportant as you can sum up points by other means.. Without a capture counter your changes will turn CTF into a DM match.. And it will need a few larger changes to bring you a capture counter (that is also displayed)..

[tZork]

Just to make things clear.. I would love a separated team and frag score system, and more inteligent rewards. its just not currently something thats easy doable afaik. And while its nice to score high ofc sutch sys would not really alter the balance mutch. its still the team that wins not the one with the most individual score.

ANd a strongly have to agree with esteels point that: its gets boring beeing the eternal defender and that just once every now and then its good play be on a team that acctualy tries a bit of teamwork.

For the ppl that join the winning team to waste pickup or join and laser ppl arround etc, just to play solitare or someit where your childish tantrums dont fuck up the game for everyone else. If you relly whanna balance the game.. GET DEFENDING, get better, get teamworked.

[Psychcf]

my god, there's the same exact problem with ET. Everyone cares about their own personal score, and does not play the game it's meant to be played. I think it's just a matter of maturity really, but that's my opinion, I'm sure it's many other reasons why this kind of thing happens, but we can't blame score alone.

[Dokujisan]

Let me try to explain this a little further.
I'm not saying that teamwork is bad or that defending is bad. I love teamwork and I am better at defense than offense.

I'm saying that people SHOULD be able to use the PERSONAL score to determine whether or not they are being an effective teammate. Otherwise, the personal score is useless. Right now, the personal scoring system works AGAINST teamwork.

You want better teamwork? Then offer more personal points for teamwork. That will communicate to the player something like...

"Yes, you are doing a good thing when you protect your flag carrier...here's 2 points".

or

It's great when you help your teammate grab the enemy flag. Here's an extra point for anyone that is within X radius of their teammate when the enemy flag is grabbed

Get what I'm saying? Right now, you only get 1 point for protecting your flag carrier, and you get nothing for helping your teammate grab the enemy flag. The current personal scoring system communicates the message of...

"Protecting the flag carrier isn't really important. It's not any more important than killing anyone else on the map".

because you only get 1 point for it.

It's all about placing value on behavior. The current system places all of the value on one particular behavior.