New CTF scoring system

[Dokujisan]

The way to exploit this: 4 players, one has flag, 3 players stand around him and gain points for that. No logic.

There are options to prevent that, I think.

First, if the whole team is standing in one place, that makes one really easy target. Throw a missle into that group and you kill multiple people at once, including the flag carrier.

Remember, capping the flag still scores the most.

Also realize, this concept that I'm proposing is just an initial idea for discussion. It can be tweaked, added to, manipulated, etc...to make it work in most, if not all, situations. You have to think like an engineer and pick away at the challenge until you come up with a good solution for it. I certainly don't think that my idea is perfect. It needs adjustment.

Maybe there is a time limit for the flag carrier to hold the flag...like a ticking time-bomb. If they hold onto the flag for too long, they die and the flag returns to enemy base. This is a feature that I would like to see anyway, regardless of scoring changes. This would prevent people from sitting somewhere trying to hide with the flag. Maybe a 2 minute time limit for this?

Maybe the team only scores points if the flag carrier is moving around.

Maybe having the team huddled too much around the flag carrier makes them a sitting duck. If they have the skill to sit in one place in the middle of the map and pick off the enemy over and over without dying or losing the flag, then maybe they are the better team. That would require a LOT of skill. Think about it.

If you kill EFC, that could probably be +1 point + kill, but nothing more. If you return the flag, that could be +1 point aswell.

Fair enough. As I said, the idea needs to be tweaked, tested, adjusted, etc.

But really, you can not expect good gameplay in public servers, because of multiple things(e.g. newbies, people who just ignore others and go for it alone). If you want to go for.

Publics just arent place for organized gaming, have never been and will never be, no matter what.

C'mon, don't just throw up your hands and give up like that. I've had a few public games where the teams were pretty synchronized. I think there are ways to improve the knowledge and skill of the general Nexuiz populous. If everyone had the mentality that you are demonstrating, then we would never improve anything. It's worth it to at least try to improve things, isn't it?

[Dokujisan]

Then you could give points to the team for stealing/returning and capturing.
And you could give points to the individuals to rate their contribution.

Hell, I would even be supportive of a variation of your suggestion that is based upon a percentage rather than points. Nobody would see the total team score, but they would see their portion of the team score (in terms of frags, defending and assists).

Score : 2 vs 7
Blue team WINS
Team scores....

ai : 40%
esteel : 20%
Sally : 19%
PsychicCyberFreak : 16%
Dave : 5%

(Because we all know that Dave is a weak player)

I like my original idea better because their effort would be reflected immediately in the "game" score, but I think splitting the frag and capture scores and using percentages like the above would also be better than what we have now.

[Dokujisan]

You ever play any Basketball video games?

Don't they track "assists" for post-game statistics?

What logic do you think they use to count assists?
How do they programmatically define an "assist".

Maybe something like that could help here.

[R4ND0M]

hi folks,

I play UT CTF since 1999 and this is how the scoring system on my favorite server works, maybe it helps a bit:
-------------------------------

+3 for killing someone targetting your flag carrier (FC)
+1 for killing someone near your FC
+1 for killing the enemy flag carrier (EFC) in your base
+10 for killing the EFC in his base
+5 for killing the EFC anywhere else
+1 for killing someone in your base
+1 for killing someone while a flag is taken
+2 for killing someone while holding the flag
+2 for returning the flag far from your base
+5 for returning the flag near the enemy base
-1 for respawn-killing
-1 for type-killing

10 points are distributed to all the flag carriers upon capture. Those who backed up the FC will be rewarded as well.

-------------------------------
As you can see, killing in your own base isnt really rewarded much. I strongly disagree that defending (camping at your base) is important on public servers (needless to say that it's a totaly different story in clan-matches), rewarding ppl for that only leads to annoying + lame playstyle (its actually much easier to hide somewhere, watching the entrances for the fc's to come in, or even worse, snipe at the flag and wait until the enemy fc did take it, then kill him and be rewarded with high points for the kill + the return of the flag...... than to go for the flag urself, or to cover your flagcarrier on its way to the homebase and later on in the base) .

just my 2 cents worth,

cheers

R4ND0M

[aikbix]

One more idea: since with the new scheme you would give points quite generously...

Maybe it would make sense to detach individual scores from team score?

Then you could give points to the team for stealing/returning and capturing.
And you could give points to the individuals to rate their contribution.

It has been criticized anyway in the past that the team gets points for fragging, after all that's not the purpose of CTF. (fragging => individual gets points, team does not)

That's a good way.

[Psychcf]

+3 for killing someone targetting your flag carrier (FC)
+1 for killing someone near your FC
+1 for killing the enemy flag carrier (EFC) in your base
+10 for killing the EFC in his base
+5 for killing the EFC anywhere else
+1 for killing someone in your base
+1 for killing someone while a flag is taken
+2 for killing someone while holding the flag
+2 for returning the flag far from your base
+5 for returning the flag near the enemy base
-1 for respawn-killing
-1 for type-killing

10 points are distributed to all the flag carriers upon capture. Those who backed up the FC will be rewarded as well.

I like that system alot. Exept for the type killing/respawn killing stuff.

[R4ND0M]

I like that system alot. Exept for the type killing/respawn killing stuff.

:?: So you think type killing/respawn killing is honorable in any way

[Psychcf]

I like that system alot. Exept for the type killing/respawn killing stuff.

:?: So you think type killing/respawn killing is honorable in any way

no, but it happens accidentally many times, and plus it can be abused by hitting t last seccond... kinda unfair...

[tZork]

A clueless nubie can capture the flag by misstake. So should flag capturing be a non score event too? I would gladly see -1 typefrag insted of mirror dmg. (at least the dumb mirror dmg we have atm)

Some of thise events would be hard to implement in nexuiz. things like

+2 for returning the flag far from your base

for example. Nexuiz maps do not contain enougth information to decide what your base, whats far away and whats neutral grounds. Other then thise snags, they could proly be solved (at least in new/revised maps), i think this system is a good boilerplate. +3 for whacking a carrier threat seems a bit mutch tho, so do +5 for efc kill. But tweaking the event scores would be the easy part once the system is in place.

[Dokujisan]

I'm glad this is being discussed by others. Thanks for your ideas. I think if *something* were done then it would be an improvement.

Dave had mentioned that he might want to tackle coding this as a mod that could be run on the Fusion CTF server for testing. I'll see what he thinks about that after he gets back from his trip.