Cheating Problems with Nexuiz?

[usenix]

Ok there, here is something i ecnountered yesterday night that gave me some unpleasant thoughts.
I was playing on the DCC beginners server (and no, I am no beginner, I am playing nexuiz since > 1 year on a regular basis), when a player nicknamed "test" connected. His movements were not bad, but also not excellent. but he did laser people permanently while they were in the air. i mean peaople were jumping and the hit in the air, hit again, hit again, fell off the map--- all without touching the ground. This was on the evil space map. This actions made me curious and I started to spectate this player on the next map. His mouse gestures seemed unnatural to me, the focus following the ennemy also during aprupt movements.
So yes, my conclusion is that that was possibly the test of an aimbot. I know that some of the developers will start flaming now that that would be impossible, but from a technical side it is _not_ impossible to code an aimbot on the client side.

well, I dont want to see the nexuiz gameplay go down the drain, so tell me what you think. maybe someone knows the server admins of DCC, so the IP of the "test" player can be found and maybe his origin.

just the best wishes and keep up the good work

usenix

[Psychcf]

if someone made an aimbot for nexuiz, it'd be the beginning of the end. While most players are honest, the not so honest ones will start to use the aimbots. This will generate a sense of "screw everybody you're all newbs I'm better then you". This will attract more and more assholes, especially since dave made that windows installer. Next thing you know nexuiz will become the next W:ET.

[TVR]

While I find it... rather peculiar that you would be on the beginners' server, the suspected aim bot user IS a beginner, judging from his choice of weapon...

Aim bots are possible using Darkplaces and any other engine without client-side anti cheating software; however the 'aimbotter' could possibly be a talented FPS player with decent ping & GFX card.

Aim bots in Nexuiz are currently quite weak due to the general lack of hit-scan weaponry, and the unique way which movement plays a role in aiming [semi-Newtonian physics].

Now there area few common solutions to get rid of aim botting, most official games use anti-cheating software of some sort; Nexuiz cannot do this because it is open-sourced, uses unofficial servers, and because of the niche it serves; another remedy is to create and add IPs to the server ban list; and then there is the most efficient method of targeting the source, the player base [Nexuiz is beginning to draw the, excuse me for stating this, the all too common American tough guy].

[divVerent]

Now there area few common solutions to get rid of aim botting, most official games use anti-cheating software of some sort; Nexuiz cannot do this because it is open-sourced, uses unofficial servers,

Note that anti-cheating software doesn't really work either. An aimbot can be hidden in a wrapper around the input and graphics driver. Using virtual machine technology, you can even do that without the game being able to detect it! See: http://theinvisiblethings.blogspot.com/ ... -pill.html

But actually, current anti-cheat software isn't that clever - it just detects a range of known cheats using patterns of what to look for, similar to how virus scanners work.

It will be only a matter of time until aimbots of that sort exist. These will be undetectable by any anti-cheat system, cause only a very slight slowdown, and will be quite generic (that is, work with virtually every game). When these aimbots come, we will be forced to remove EVERY hitscan weapon.

In other words - enjoy the Nex and the MG secondary while you still can. Eventually the MG secondary will get a spread too, and the Nex may get replaced by a slow moving homing instant death particle that your target can escape by running around a corner and letting it hit the wall.

[GreEn`mArine]

In other words - enjoy the Nex and the MG secondary while you still can. Eventually the MG secondary will get a spread too, and the Nex may get replaced by a slow moving homing instant death particle that your target can escape by running around a corner and letting it hit the wall.

That'sa good one. If you would really do that you would lose all good players, or a community that doesn't use "default Nexuiz" settings anymore.

[divVerent]

It's still better than having cheats around that everyone can use.

Once a VM-based cheat is out, it will be the death of most FPS gaming... but we aren't at that point yet. However, we are very close, people are just developing in exactly that area. Limiting damage can only be done by removing instant hit weapons, or making them inexact in some way.

[animus]

Now there area few common solutions to get rid of aim botting, most official games use anti-cheating software of some sort; Nexuiz cannot do this because it is open-sourced, uses unofficial servers,

Actually, Urban Terror (a Q3 mod) uses the BattlEye anti-cheat system, and it's tied to their specific build of the (now GPLed) engine. The QVM mod code remains closed as well. As far as I'm aware, Id approves of all of this, with the stipulation that the mod must remain compatible with vanilla Q3.

Note that I'm not advocating BattlEye; its author seems to be taking his sweet time (even on a simple GUID system), and UrT is suffering from an influx of cheaters all the while.

It will be only a matter of time until aimbots of that sort exist. These will be undetectable by any anti-cheat system, cause only a very slight slowdown, and will be quite generic (that is, work with virtually every game). When these aimbots come, we will be forced to remove EVERY hitscan weapon.

That's a rather rash and heavy-handed response... Please, please put more thought into this. You will drive players away if you do something like that. Don't punish everyone because of a few idiots.

[Nil]

so the IP of the "test" player can be found and maybe his origin.

IP addresses are not logged on DCC's at the moment. You can use the "status" command to see the IP address of other players.

[divVerent]

It will be only a matter of time until aimbots of that sort exist. These will be undetectable by any anti-cheat system, cause only a very slight slowdown, and will be quite generic (that is, work with virtually every game). When these aimbots come, we will be forced to remove EVERY hitscan weapon.

That's a rather rash and heavy-handed response... Please, please put more thought into this. You will drive players away if you do something like that. Don't punish everyone because of a few idiots.

If it's just a few idiots, a change won't be needed. But assume that at one time, on every server there are two or three cheaters. Then this step may be needed to limit damage.

Of course, not just because of one or two cheaters.

[animus]

If it's just a few idiots, a change won't be needed. But assume that at one time, on every server there are two or three cheaters. Then this step may be needed to limit damage.

The Nexuiz community is still rather small, and IME cheaters are always a minority anyways. So, no worries about that happening any time soon, I think.

Of course, not just because of one or two cheaters.

Good to hear. Still, there are other solutions. The most obvious alternative would be a GUID system. Id (and Even Balance) tied Q3's to a purchased CD key, but it could also be based on e.g. forum registration or even a dedicated GUID registration system.

Once you have that, then you could do all sorts of other things... Servers restricted to players with an "established" GUID only, temporarily closed registration with player invites, etc. I'm aware of the privacy implications (e.g. some people even set up Punkbuster GUID databases, streamed to by server admins), but it might be better than not having it at all.