Standard Gaming Practices...WTF?

[PHREAK]

Not sure where a topic like this belongs so I posted it here.
Anywho, like many of you, I got playing the ladder a bit and reading post-battle comments...watching videos of matches and realized that something I thought was done by noobs was common practice here.
Spawn kills!
To my knowledge, this is something either done out of reflex or if you're a pussy. Now please don't get insulted by my comments in this post, but many of the good players I had respect for, seem to spawn kill like it's nothing.
Am I the only one seing something wrong here or am I just naive to expact fair play?
As everyone who ever played me knows, I don't mind loosing. But in a fight! Someone wacking me with skill! Not because I just spawned in front of him.
If you watch my demos, you'll see that I never shoot at a freshly spawned player, unless it's a twitch...then I apologize. I don't care if I have one or two less ELO points at the end of the match...it's just wrong.
Especially with the ladder, it's a game of skill and practice. Not dumb luck and shitty behaviour. There is simply no skill in shooting someone that dosn't even know you're shooting.
The reason I'm pissed with this is that many of you are bragging about this, and how it made you win...blah, blah

Same goes for camping and blind RL'ing although I'll refrain from getting into that right now.

A simple sollution would be to make a freshly spawned player invurable for a few seconds. To prevent idiotic players from abusing this, make the players weapons useless during this period of time.

Does anyone else see a point in doing this??? anyone.....

[obi_wan]

I never played any other fps than Nexuiz, so i dunno about "Standard Gaming Practices"... But I think there is a difference between respawn frag while running, and respawn frag while camping. When you are running through a map, especially with the nex gun, sometimes you can't stop your finger... and the oppenent is vaporized

Why is blind rocket launching a bad practice for you ? Rockets are not unlimited, and for example i often shoot in 2 or 3 places with the RL because I know that the other player should walk through one of them... but my shots are totally blind. It's the game.

[PHREAK]

...When you are running through a map, especially with the nex gun, sometimes you can't stop your finger... and the oppenent is vaporized .....

I have nothing against the reflex shots as they are bound to happen. What I'm talking about are intentional spawn killings just to up your score.

[tChr]

I agree with you in thise.. with some exeptions.

Overall I think it would be good sportmanship to at least let your oponent start moving. However, when running I might fire on reflex if I round a corner and there the player is.

Also if An opponen spawns facing you and you have 2 hp left, you have no choice or you'd be dead yourself

It is kinf od annoying to be killed before you even get the chance to strt moving, but I can see why many players would want to get as high a frag count as possible in the ladder matches.

Personally I've come to disregard this kind of sportsmanship in a ladder game, especially if my opponent does too, however, I would respect it if we could agree that the sportsmanlike thing is the way to do it.

That of cource means that a freshly spawned played doesnt shoot me in the back if i turn around and go the other way to lef him get started

[esteel]

I'm not a big fan of spawn fragging but most of the time its either you or the other guy. If i do not frag him but turn away to leave him alone i more often then not get his shotgun in the back. It does not have to be unsportsman just a reflex and the secondary shotgun can be quite bad
It also depends on the opponent. Some are just hard to frag so you deserve that extra frag
Then again its just part of the game. It can be pretty frustating to get spawn killed again and again but if you frag the other one you can do the same thing

Hmm there are a few interesting reads:
http://www.sk-gaming.com/feature/670/1/
http://www.ggl.com/news.php?NewsId=2436
http://www.ggl.com/news.php?NewsId=2431

[C.Brutail]

Spawnkilling is general in ladder matches, and it's part of the game. It takes skill to know where the nmy will spawn or to escape from a spawning situation, so I don't mind spawnfragging in "official" tournament matches. Spawnfragging is not only bad luck.

I have never been a good dueller, but if we take "seriously" a ladder match, then spawnfragging is tolerable.

But on fun play dm I never spawnfrag, it ruins the fun.

[Urmel]

I'm surely no fan and dislike spawnkilling and camping, this is one side. On the other side, especially in 1on1 matches, It's just me or the other one. War is war.

I've been fragged about 80 (or was it 100?) times by a well known player in a 15mins 1on1 on nexdm04 and he succeeded that by camping and spawn killing only.

Really unfair and quite frustrating, but still he showed great skills and he deserved that victory somehow. That are my feelings. And I think the better You and Your enemy plays, the more skills like this are just necessary to use. The game itsself allows this. War is war.

It's also no problem for me to lose, I rather have a bad conscience when fraggin' n00bies like rabbits. But some players just hate losing, that's their own think and I can't change, neither I want to condemn that. After all those ones work hard on their game skills and I learned very much of em. That's why I respect them doing this to me

[GreEn`mArine]

I'm always shooting enemies out of reflex (when using the nexgun). This means that I'll also do spawnkills.

However I gonna say "sry" directly after that in most of the times

[og_carbon]

in Quakeworld, you're going to see a lot of spawn fragging going on. It's not uncommon to see a good player tossing nades and rockets randomly @ spawns right after a kill. A great player will do this, and even on a map like ztndm3 can completely control a map, in match or duel just by adapting spawn fragging to their map knowledge.

i've always believed it was rather weak in FFA / DM, myself. it's frowned upon but you'll still catch a lot of the greater players doing it. it's become part of the game, so sometimes you can adapt to the method in this case. wait a few seconds before respawn to throw off the offenders timing.

[Urmel]

wait a few seconds before respawn to throw off the offenders timing.

Try this in a ladder match and if You managed, just tell me hosw