Rocket Boosting (was: Making A Stand! - For 2.4)

[Dokujisan]

Also, like zombie, I'm also learning how to rocket fly to cap flags recently. Everyone else is doing it, so I thought I'd give it a go. The result is that I feel it makes capping way too easy on some open maps (facing, capture city, blasted lands, greatwall)

Maybe someone should make a mod called Rocket Fly CTF which would be setup with special rocket flying maps and adjust the other weapons to make it possible to stop someone rocketflying.

[Dokujisan]

Imho the more skill needed to make a trickmove (RLBoost), the more you need to learn to PLAY. I've voted for reduce.

But that's the point. It doesn't take very much skill at all to do the rocket flying and it wields a lot of power. It throws off the game because everyone will eventually try to use rocket flying and use other techniques far less (like using teamplay to get the flag back to base).

Don't remove. This is a feature of Nexuiz. Since 1.0.

I didn't see it until kojn showed it in a flag capture demo sometime late last summer. Over the past few months, a lot of people have been starting to use it. That's why it's just now becoming a problem. It was an unknown feature (to most) for a long time.

[inficio]

Doku: maybe it's not impossible to cap on facing worlds without rocketboost, but it's going to be pretty hard. the difference between no rocketboost and rocketboost (in the hands of a moderately fast player, not talking RD here) is a flag carrier being accosted by one or two volleys of defenders as opposed to two or three to slow the player down. for instance, if i kill a defender in base, grab flag, he has a chance to respawn in base to attack me again. if he dies again he has a chance to spawn outside base to attack me yet again (if i immediately flee out the front.) if he dies again and if he spawns at the front or back side & is good enough with laser he can actually attempt to intercept me yet again.

also doku, remember that one practice match we had where you had dave and we like capped once just cause turner and i hauled ass at the beginning? and no other captures between the two teams in 20 min? that was *with* rocketboost. w/out what chance is there to capture, everyone will turtle and get 5'ers on flag returns. "teamwork" isn't the answer, not when defenders have the advantage due to instant respawn, close respawn proximity, and a pretty nice starting weapon. any attempt to completely route the enemy base, escape with flag, intercept all the interceptors, and still keep your flag tidy in base is pretty much luck as it is, rocketboosting just makes it a lil more likely.

(i understand the consensus is to reduce rocketboost as of now, but i'm just arguing as if you guys were still going to kill it

[zombie]

Still, I don't think we want an elitist game...

Also, about handicap, how would you vote that? How do beginners vote? Most of the time, they are the non-voters (hence the new 2.4 voting system to make voting more possible)

Certainly I don't either, but there will ALWAYS be "elite" players owning noobs, whether or not they can rocket boost (perhaps the humiliation stings a bit less tho!). Perhaps if it is off/reduced by default, then matches comprised of mostly (evenly) skilled players can vote to turn it on..? I don't know how the new voting system works, but if it is improved--then all the better.

[Diomedes]

I voted keep.

Fast paced?
Is Nexuiz a fast paced fps or not? Removing RL-boosting will slow down ctf-gameplay, which means caps on open maps like greatwall will become impossible. And there is one simple way to stop a RLbooster especially on open those maps. That is a good sniper. I've always feared Inficios aim and even pray after a boost that he doesnt hit me.

My expirience
A few day ago i played a public ctf match vs some newbies. All of them (about 4) had MG and were camping in the base. Map was greatwall. Those who have seen me playing know how i attack there. So I attacked with 200/200 and rl. Do you really think i could escape that? No, I didnt. More than 10 times i ran into their MGs and was slaugthered. I was helpless with all my laserjumpskill and RL-BOOSTING. No single cap for me the whole match.

Without RL-boosting
On open maps there are only two weapons used: RL vs nex (or MG in 2.3)
Without RLboosting only nex. That means "greatwall == tdm minsta"
If no RL-boost, then no nex please (and MG 2.3)

You complain about the maps, remove the map from the server if it's too easy to camp there, but this isn't a argument for keeping rocketboost.
Good maps are too small for rocketboosting, a rocket- or laserjump should be enough to cross one room, so removing doesn't slow down the gameplay.

Teamplay
People say it will improve teamplay. I think ctf-gameplay will be similar to desertcastle, where 5 players are attacking as a group and hardly anyone will reach the flag. Not to mention returning to base.

If they use teamplay, they will reach and capture the flag.

Maps
Bundy also told me weapons are ok, maps are not. Imho he's absolutly right. Look at capturecity. Best maps are those which are partitially indoor and outdoor (facingworlds), where EVERY weapon can be used. (Facing has still not enough indoor parts imho, but maps are another topic)

I do agree, but why do you post this in a thread about rocketboosting?

Less option in a game will make it uninteressting. So please keep RL-boosting.

It will make it more interesting for me, perhaps i even start playing on public servers again.

I hope my english isnt too bad and you dont get tired reading my long post.

No, i actually didn't understand anything.

[Mute Print]

Just set the delay to 0.1.

[:)]

everyone will turtle and get 5'ers on flag returns. "teamwork" isn't the answer, not when defenders have the advantage due to instant respawn, close respawn proximity, and a pretty nice starting weapon. any attempt to completely route the enemy base, escape with flag, intercept all the interceptors, and still keep your flag tidy in base is pretty much luck as it is, rocketboosting just makes it a lil more likely.

I understand you're saying that rocketboosting helps against stalemates, but keep in mind that the match you mentioned had both rocketboosting and the nex-switch-refire bug enabled. I believe the weapon-switching refire bug with the nex caused that game to become so defensive.

[inficio]

Dave: that's very true. i can't tell how it would've been without the nex glitch, but i expect it would've been pretty defensive. it seems the more practice Doku's clan and mine are having, the more and more defensive we get.

i might be for reduction/removal of boost if flag cap values were higher, so teamwork would have to compensate. for 20 frags atm, it's just not really worth it when you can just defend. i hope that's not what anyone wants from ctf.

[Rad Ished]

I'm for reducing.
When you make a map there are parameters to consider. If you change these parameters then the maps need to change too. By making this an incremental change you make possible adjustment to the new distances and possibilities by map makers, I can't understand why players of Nexuiz don't spend more time making maps instead of playing , including me.
Somehow it seems that part of the creative process is actually working out how to use the maps, for example the hills in Greatwall were they always intended as velocity/direction/altitude adjusters?
Making maps is so rewarding but it takes so long, i would like to be able to create maps in a less solipsist manner, but I'm not so sure this is possible (not if mikee is any callibration object).
...
So I think reducing is a better option because we can see what happens in a more incremental manner, 2.4 is looking great so far, and this thread is an hotbed.
...
As an afterthought, i think that the subject of mapper choices vs weapon callibration is a bit chicken and egg, which came first? which should come first? was there a weapon and no map or a map and no weapon?
Okay that makes no sense but i did well till now, Nexuiz love it HOOOOOOoooooooo

[PinkRobot]

Serious Concern Expressed In This Post Shortly:

Will this change affect Regular DM play in ANY way ? I would not want a gameplay change designed specifically for CTF mess with my favorite game mode.