The Nexuiz Ninjaz - Clearing the Air (complain here)

[divVerent]

I fully agree to that. But this has nothing to do with the topic.

I just say we shouldn't make changes that will make the game for the less skilled players MORE frustrating... not that we should remove the Nex or the Laser

Anyway, I think we shouldn't be derailing a topic that is meant to stop the derailing of another topic...

[Alien]

It has. Less frustrating for first-comers will make game SOMETIMES less balanced for better players. Nexuiz fixes the problem of rail, making people to move faster. Now we are discussing SLOWING DOWN people when whole nexuiz idea was actually fast movement and not camping. Later we discuss protection bubble which also makes game more prone to camping. Instead of learning to move (attack) and aim (defend) like it is really possible, people are slowed and equiped with spam weapons (and not those which require prediction, e.g. lightning in quake). In public ctf people are learning techniques because there is no decent place to learn anywhere else. Public CTF becomes insanely good when only old nexuiz school players come. There is no need to tell you defend, me attacks. Everyone knows what to do in particular situation (whether to attack, defend or support) and I appreciate those moments alot (best part of nexuiz ever forever).

Another thing, I was fragged (and sometimes taught) by Red Dragon 1000 times or smth while starting to play, yet I haven't quit because of that.

This whole thread started people hurt each other ambitions, points of views, insulted each other and etc... So this thread should be forgotten because it destroys Nexuiz game like netquake vs quakeworld wars did. There are much more work to be done, until nexuiz could be forked .

[tZork]

Alien, plz stop this derailing before i have to spank you.

Personally I don't have any harsh feelings towards the NN subcommunity at all. However, I often feel provoked by the (imo) clumsy way [-z-] expresses himself, but of course i don't hold this against the rest of NN

The ninjaz are the only community that actively writes articles relating to the game. Nexuiz.com has what... 3 posts right now? Maybe 20 in the forum? We're building a story around this community and around this game but you're not taking the time to read or understand it, just attack it based on your assumptions. I dunno... maybe you guys think warsownews.net is a bad idea too.

Stuff like this makes me pissed off. Arrogant patronizing bullshit in my eyes. Nexuiz was alive long before you found it and if / when you leave, it will still be. take a step back and get some perspective on how your coming off. if you want ppl to treat you with respect, you have to do the same for them. Barking like a chiwawa or wiggling some kinda e-penis around as soon as threes a difference in opinions is a sure-fire way to kill any chases of a constructive dialogue.

That said, kudos for all the nice tools NN provided for Nexuiz.

[Alien]

Alien, plz stop this derailing before i have to spank you.

me has super shotgun, you not

From serious point of view, this thread is useless anyway (accusations of each other shouldn't have started in the first place).

[divVerent]

Basically, there is multiple views on the game:

• The "pros": players of very high skill, who need the game to provide more depth, so even they can still improve
• The "average player": players of medium skill, who want to enjoy the game, and be able to learn from the "pros"
• The "newbies": players who are new to the game, or don't have enough time to rise to a higher level

None of these must be forgotten when thinking about how to change the game. [-z-]'s suggestion totally ignores the demand the "newbies" and "average players" have, and only fulfills the demands of the "pros".

What NN need most is an "advocatus noobi", someone who represents the view of new players.

Also, all this wouldn't have gone so emotional againt NN, had it not been [-z-], the "master" of NN, doing these personal attacks. If any lesser NN member would have done the same, it wouldn't have "reflected" that badly on NN. But [-z-] simply represents NN...

[[-z-]]

divVerent, the pure goal of my suggested CTF system was to make the game LESS frustrating for new players by helping them identify problems with their tactics. I think the game tell you you're messing up is better than being lasered around by your teammates or yelled at by your teammates (which by the way is the harsh way I learned some things). This attitude is unfortunately infective and after I had learned that little bit, I was for a short while acting in the same manner. My moment of Nexuiz enlightenment was then creating the ninjaz. A website that would aid in teaching players the things they couldn't learn elsewhere.

I'm not forcing you to code anything. I'm theorizing and explaining my reasoning and getting attack by those who fail to see my overall goal in the system. You yourself have agreed it's getting attacked on the wrong points. The waste of time and energy I've admitted does give me a patronizing attitude. I'm not perfect, nor do I claim to be. As Dokujisan has noted, I'm constantly learning and trying to understand, evolving my techniques in game and in life.

I do not want hostility between us because I have always thought of this as a mutually beneficial relationship... however it's becoming clear to me you do not feel the same.

I'm not a very rich person. I make it by with freelance work I fit in between school and Nexuiz. I try and contribute through the ways I've detailed above. I do not say these things to show how "awesome I am". I say these things to show you what a positive influence the ninjaz have been and how our goal is to help. If I could help Nexuiz out more financially, I would, and believe me you, I do plan on doing more so when I do get a steady job but as it stands, I'm spending enough to just keep Nexuiz Ninjaz running. Too me though, it's a necessary cost to keep learning under one of the most committed, selfless person I've come across in the open-source community, you divVerent.

It flips my mind around to have such lengthy discussions on IRC where I feel we've made progress and come to terms with our differences in ideas about the system only to find you publicly shitting on the Ninjaz. I'd like to write more about the person I've pinned as the single most amazing developer in this nitch of the internet but it's going to take a lot to muster up the strength to overcome your obvious negative feelings towards my community.

I'm not asking you to change the game to something you don't want. I'm asking you to understand it from my perspective. I present to you as professional as I currently know possible, my ideas, theories and supporting evidence. Something many others would never consider giving you the respect to do.


tZork, I'm not trying to come off as arrogant or patronizing but I do feel I need to explain who the ninjaz are in the whole scheme of things. I understand that Nexuiz existed before I was a member but I want you to understand how we've been a positive influence and we mean no disrespect.

[Alien]

(which is rewarded for him through the scoring system, but that's a different story and a thing I have no idea how to fix)..

This is easy, reduce the personal scores of all the team members, whose flag was taken. Will fix TVR's problem of not stopping the incoming attacker. E.g. if somebody picks my team flag, each member of my team gets -5. Return should produce less for returner's personal score (so in sum you'll get negative score if your flag was picked), that there would be no incentive in camping, but loss of flag should noticeably decrease personal score of the person who lost to compensate kamikaze picking. Everything applies to personal score only.

[divVerent]

[-z-]: you still don't understand.

Do not make the game a dictatorship.

Make the game _recommend_ what to do, not _force_ players to do something else.

If someone doesn't want to learn, he won't anyway, but instead think the game is bad if it suddenly prevents him from doing what he usually does.

Before using severe means such as forcing someone to spectate, or even this bubble, all "nice" means have to be tried out, e.g. on-screen messages, score penalties (so players question themselves if they get negative score), announcer messages, maybe even a tutorial mode (best used as part of the singleplayer campaign, and on beginner servers).

That is all I want. Do not use force unless you REALLY have to. And I
simply believe that this time has not come yet.

That way, the same people would learn as those who do when taking your ideas as is. However, the players who will NOT learn from it won't be driven away.

And as for the Ninjaz - I have yet to see a true positive influence from the NNs that is not shadowed by negative influence in the very same matter. Writing tutorials to improve your playing performance sure is good. Behaving arrogantly towards those who don't share the same opinion is bad.

NNs, especially you, should learn not to behave in an arrogant way towards "non-Ninjaz". That's really all I want to see, and expect from you most. Being the leader of the NNs, you should really provide a good example for your community, and not let yourself down to such a low level.

[divVerent]

And as long as you take my critique as "publicly shitting on your community", I don't think we can make any progress. I have described my points in length. You sure will disregard them again, and again insult me. But I see that coming anyway, because that simply is your arrogant attitude.

Please, learn the ability to take critique, even if it is negative. Do NOT disregard it and insult the one issuing it, but try to learn from it.

[ai]

@[-z-]:
I think this thread could have been avoided in being created if you actually took a look and read the post I made. What you bring up here I already explained in that other post (here). You complain about misinformation? You don't even read my posts anymore.