The Nexuiz Ninjaz - Clearing the Air (complain here)

[[-z-]]

Following up on this mess, I've decided to start a thread concerning the scapegoat of the month, the Nexuiz Ninjaz. A community I started ~1 year ago to help players old and new push the limits, share ideas and build upon the game we love.

Recently, we've been getting a lot of sour energy in our direction. People are making accusations based on assumptions and misinformation. I've started this thread to help clear the air and stop the major derailment of the thread I've linked above.

Everyone seems to be focusing on the details of here and now, rather than trying to understand where Nexuiz was a year ago and why the ninjaz exist. Do yourself a favor and catch up on some history before you try and tell me what is and what isn't. Rather than celebrating our differences and working together on things we do agree on, people have been taking their frustrations out on the ninjaz for reasons unknown to me.

I find it ridiculous that I even need to justify our existence but I'd prefer this over a few uninformed individuals spreading misinformation about a community who's pure goal is to improve a game we love. Not everyone sees the game as we do or want to play it like we do. We respect that, which is why we have our own community.

The ninjaz are the only community that actively writes articles relating to the game. Nexuiz.com has what... 3 posts right now? Maybe 20 in the forum? We're building a story around this community and around this game but you're not taking the time to read or understand it, just attack it based on your assumptions. I dunno... maybe you guys think warsownews.net is a bad idea too.

The ninjaz have made many contributions, providing applications and services many players use on a daily basis. The community has brought together players new and old, combining our forces to make this place better.

The ninjaz forum software is a lot more powerful than this and it needs to be for future growth. Not that I'd even have the clearance to do this, but converting this board to that software would be a lot of work. Something a lot of you can easily point your fingers around and say "do this, do that" but you don't consider the hardships of application management and software development let alone project management. Even if this were to happen, then I'm sure people would complain that there are too many players trying to change the game.

A lot of the things we do aren't even seen by most. We do a lot of work behind the scenes, working with other developers on IRC. There are tools out there only the inner circle has access to, I'd like to some day make available to all but these kinds of attitudes don't provide a comforting environment.

"Hey -z- good job with that application but you didn't do this that or the other thing, so it sucks, dumbass."


The ninjaz provide an open-minded atmosphere that's just not available here. The only reason the idea of a split exists is because people are willing to see it that way. I don't know any ninjaz off the top of my head that don't browse these forums. True ninjaz never felt this way as Dokujisan, an esteemed Nexuiz veteran and ninja has expressed in the other thread. We don't let that discourage our commitment to this forum but apparently some of you are trying to make that so.


Instead of understanding who we are and how we help, we've been marked as a negative influence by those who feel... I don't know what they feel, upset? However, as those who've followed history know, unity was one of our goals while creating the community. The high ranking results for anything Nexuiz are no mistake. Before the ninjaz, it was quite hard to find anything related to Nexuiz. As the guy that designed the nexuiz.com website, I can tell you this was no accident (7th).

For the record, the Ninjaz aren't just about Nexuiz. It's about how we approach problem solving. How we understand problems, how we go about creating solutions. As the slogan says, we are practicing the ninja arts [of Nexuiz]. These morals we (true ninjaz) live by. I wish people could see this. Games aren't "just games", they display how we think. It's no surprise to me that the ninjaz who play similar to the style I prefer also work in similar fields.

Please stop shitting on us.

[shaggy]

I find this dumb 80% of the people reply saying, oh, we don't want the community to split yet they keep pushing this shit fight on. I've been a member here for over a year now, and a member of this great game for 2 years and 11 months, and this is the first thing closest to a community split I have ever seen.

People keep "bullying" [-z-] for his efforts, now, some may say they're constuctive critism... I'm 50/50, some of them do sound like they're just trying to make life hard.

[-z-] keeps putting petrol on the fire by creating posts like these, and/or repling to posts that are insulting him and the others are creating replys that really aren't needed.
Both parties are fueling this fight, it really should stop.

Why doesn't everyone just stop... You all talk about, we just want the community to go forward, well, the forums having bitch fights are mostlikely going to scar the community. If I was a new user and I saw these posts on nn or the at forums, I'd not register, I wouldn't want to get involved in these shit fights...

How is it supposed to look when someone googles nexuiz and they find a link to these posts where the main people of nexuiz are bitching?

Give it a break.

[Moo]

I've been playing Nexuiz since around 2.3(I've had an account here for a while, but not a very productive one) , and man, I would like this to stop also, but what I would really hate is for this debate not to have a clear winner. -z- is not 'putting petrol on the fire', he is defending himself and everything he has worked for. What's really turning this wheel is a lot of the members of AT fighting back and providing some pretty useless excuses for -z-'s defense, imo.

Nexuiz Ninjaz is an awesome site where beginners can come and learn tricks and tips about Nexuiz! Have you seen Kyoman, the videos? It's got some useful videos in there! And I didn't create the dojo for no reason. Its purpose is to TEACH, to HELP new people learn aspects of Nexuiz with or without the help of a teacher. It's still in production! And the forum is filled with great advice for beginners to advanced players. You can't really say many bad things about the Ninjaz as a whole.

Nexuiz Ninjaz now also hosts OUNS, the site for all beginners.

Basically, what I'm trying to say is this: -z- has worked very hard to get where he is, and he's done it without a profit. He's helped this community so much in so many ways, little and small, and spitting all over what he has done isn't going to make this any better.

[divVerent]

My problem is that [-z-] tends to insult people who don't share his ideas.

And sometimes it would be good if [-z-] could learn to look at ideas from another perspective.

I for example am a total noob when it comes to aiming, with all that belongs to it. I simply can't move the mouse smoothly enough to get a good enough hit rate with the Nex, or to do QW-style bunnyhopping in Nexuiz "reliably". This is also why I never beat the second part of test99 (the jump over the slime).

Given that, I also can't move as fast as e.g. jlue or Red Dragon can (see my signature for race records). No amount of watching them how they move actually helps me, as I have pinpointed my flaws to moving the mouse smoothly enough to gain speed fast. In slow motion of a demo recorded by me, you can easily see that I move the mouse a bit, then stop, then move it a bit again, then stop, etc. - but not smoothly. Neither can I hold a soldering iron with my hand well - I simply can't hold it so that it's fixed and won't move.

On the other hand, I understand the game very well theoretically. None of [-z-]'s posting about desertcastles was new to me, all the tricks mentioned in there were obvious to me. Yet still I wouldn't say it was a bad idea to post them - it was a very good one, for the people who were otherwise frustrated with that map.

However, none of this theory can fix my shortcomings in aiming or moving. It sure can compensate a little, e.g. knowing the other weapons means I don't desperately try to hit with the Nex all the time, but rather prefer weapons that don't need such exact aim... but if I am in a weak team, and playing against really strong people, and this may be a 4vs4 with nobody really good in my team, and two really good players in the other team, it does not "take effort" to fail capturing four times. Especially if the enemy isn't stupid, and waits for me to take the flag before he shoots me down (which is rewarded for him through the scoring system, but that's a different story and a thing I have no idea how to fix). Just because I cannot beat a team with, e.g., alpha and jlue, it doesn't mean I am stupid. I want [-z-] and two noobs to challenge alpha, jlue, and Red Dragon, to know what it is like to be pwned by speedrunners.

When I explained this situation to [-z-], all I got back was "you obviously lack in theory, or you would not fail capturing that much". Of course without an explanation on WHAT I am doing wrong, just "you don't know the theory". Also, he claims that without having even specced me in such a match. So this all is nothing but insults. Negativity, as [-z-] would call it.

And sorry, to the other NNs. [-z-] is the leader of NN, and his behaviour towards me and others does influence our opinion against NN. He is representative for NN, after all. Not every NN behaves in [-z-]'s arrogant ways - however, [-z-], being the leader of the community and accepted highest ninja, should certainly also behave that way, and provide a good example, instead of "teaching" his fellow ninjnas how to be hostile and arrogant towards others.

And now he complains at what he's getting back for his behaviour...

[divVerent]

"Not everyone sees the game as we do or want to play it like we do. We respect that, which is why we have our own community."

LOL.

Then why are you trying to impose your annoying and discriminating ideas into the main Nexuiz code base? Make a ninja mod, if you insist. If it turns out to be generally useful, it can still enter the main code base from there.

I am not your code slave. As simple as that. I want to develop a game _I_ can enjoy too - not a game that's discriminating against myself.

[Alien]

jlue or Red Dragon spent days to get it working (hopping, finding CORRECT laserjumping angle). Like you spent hours for developing the game, they spent hours for training. For example, I can't laserjump correctly (whole movement is wrong) and they would own me any day. Another thing, you can't just come first time to FPS and be an aimbot. With constant practice, you get the no-zoom aim or skill called "reflexive shot". This is the thing, when you don't need to check to be sure if crosshair is really on the target and you press the mouse button without thinking. If somebody understands it differently, please correct me. Everything needs time (and we live so short). Some might say, yeah, but previous day I saw a guy, which I have never seen before and he was a freaking unstoppable. But many forget that people come and leave. Some people I've played 2 years ago were gone, yet some of older ones came back (even just for only 3 matches). Some might be seasoned UT(version), Q(version) players (and I know who ), so this doesn't mean they haven't put sweat into learning.
That's why I'm not too much against camping, because you need to learn aim somehow. The problem is that usually those campers let enemy take things inside your base (100 armor, health, strength or take all weapons by themselves and die) or campers amount gets too huge and game can't be played like it was meant.

[divVerent]

Sure, you are right with this. I do not spend that much time playing, and neither do I want to.

I certainly can't blame jlue or Red Dragon for being as fast as they are. No, I actually support them, and want to spread their knowledge (by making youtube videos of how to do the race maps fast). However, it isn't just knowledge what they are using, but also actual skill.

However, what I do not want are changes to the game that makes playing against these guys even more frustrating. It's hard enough to hit them when defending, as you usually only have a single chance till they're gone. In such a situation, the game is very frustrating - and the only thing that can be fun is taking their flag, so they cannot capture and first have to hunt you down for direct confrontation. You know, losing against an enemy you see is one thing - losing against an enemy you cannot even see or do anything about is highly frustrating.

And as for camping - it's a lame tactics, and not worth rewarding. But it also is not required to punish it. It shouldn't gain too many points, but that's all.

[Alien]

Cause you haven't seen good nexers. I can ask jlue to give some who he played against or maybe red dragon will come here and share his. Camping is useful only when beginning to play. Later you can just play with nex all the time (attacking, defending, roaming, etc) without standing in one place.

[divVerent]

If someone is a very good nexer, he'll stack up points anyway, even if it's just mere frags. And having 100 frags in a 20 minutes game is some honor too, even if it is not in the "score" column.

And sure, a good nexer can beat jlue often when attacking. But, not many are good nexers...

[Alien]

Not so many are GOOD attackers either. Because GOOD people come and play at public (sometimes) and casual camper can't stop them it doesn't mean game is wrong, but the people are lacking skill in comparison to others. That's why morphed does not like nex, cause in good hands it is devastating, but you need time to learn to use it.