Let's change the name of this game

[Moo]

This might only just be my opinion, but I think that when you attempt to keep maps that require a higher skill level out of a game......You keep the players from getting any better.

I also think that cyberparcour01 is still considered a race, because you are still timed, and some people can do the map faster than others can. This is even true with a straight race map. some people can strafe better than others. Prove me wrong, please.

From what I see in the topic post of this thread, the difference between race and complete this shit is that race is a straight line with 3 checkpoints: 1 at the start, 1 at the middle, and 1 at the end, and then a teleporter back to the first checkpoint. (Even a turn in a map requires map movement skill and it CAN be frustrating. [see "the_turn" map]).

Complete this shit, however, is for maps like "the_turn" and those that require more skill to complete. If that is how you wish to think, please, do make a gamemode called "complete this shit".

[divVerent]

The problem is, once we officially support "Complete This Shit" style maps, mappers will in the future not make race maps AT ALL any more.

cel_hell - CTS
complexirace - CTS
cyberparcour01 - CTS (even if you use the noob rails, you fall off all the time, but this could be fixed by supporting the actual race mode and not just qualifying, and putting more checkpoints, and by making falling off the track not deadly, but just time wasting)
cyberparcour03 - CTS and VERY much like super mario forever
dibrun - CTS
dibrun2 - CTS
hagarrun - CTS
cb_race1 - CTS
nexrun1 - CTS
nexrun1_fun - CTS and not fun
nexrun2 - CTS
ozorun - CTS
slopez - CTS
space_race - CTS
test99 - CTS
vert - CTS

aggressorrace - Race
darkzonerace - Race
racing_worlds - Race
Into the vixen - Race, but missing race spawns, and bad checkpoint placement (as in, it's not obvious where to go, as it should be on a race map), but at least an attempt
HookRace - Race
looves - Race, but pointless
yourewinner - Race, but not Nexuiz
ninja_run - Race
nordiccastle71 - Race
organicrace - Race
ovalrace - Race
powerslide - Race, but lacks spawns and has a teleport from end to start, instead of being a cycle, which REALLY shouldn't have been hard on that map
runrunrun2 - Race (due to the teleports instead of kill triggers, it's actually playable)
sideloop18 - Race
slalom - Race
streetrace - Race
subseatrack - Race
the_turn - Race, but pointless as race map
tripzonerace - Race
warfare_race - Race

weird_towers - mix of CTS and Race

cyberparcour02 - a freaking MAZE (and intentionally no radarmap provided, of course), and you DIE AT THE END - someone did not understand Race apparently
test00 - Puzzle
test01 - Puzzle
test02 - Puzzle

See the pattern? The race maps are all quite old, except for powerslide and vixen (which is however actually a DM map that also has some race support)! People do not even MAKE race maps, all people now make is CTS maps. This sucks. By officially supporting CTS maps, people will have even less of a reason to make actual Race maps.

I wonder if I should add code checking if a map contains actual race spawns and not just qualifying ones, as this is a clear method to detect CTS maps...

[Moo]

....You really don't get my point, do you? Technically every race map could qualify as "CTS" because the objective is to COMPLETE THIS race(SHIT), and every CTS map could still qualify as race.

My other point is, taking maps like cyberparcour01 out of Nexuiz will only be a hindrance to players looking to get good. Maybe we should rethink how we find out what maps get into Nexuiz.

[Icarus]

whenever im playing race CTS maps seems to be more popular

[divVerent]

"....You really don't get my point, do you? Technically every race map could qualify as "CTS" because the objective is to COMPLETE THIS race(SHIT), and every CTS map could still qualify as race."

No.

In race maps, the objective is being fast.

In CTS maps, the objective is to beat it at all, as that is hard enough.

Get the point?


"My other point is, taking maps like cyberparcour01 out of Nexuiz will only be a hindrance to players looking to get good. Maybe we should rethink how we find out what maps get into Nexuiz."

No, my point is, we should not take such frustrating maps INTO Nexuiz. It's just in svn at the moment, not in any release, and should never be. People can play it on their favorite server anyway of course.


"whenever im playing race CTS maps seems to be more popular"

And this is what I hate. Race is totally unenjoyable to me because people do not even want to play race, but always CTS, CTS, CTS... and it is why I regret making this game mode even. And by officially adding a CTS map, we just support this abuse of the game mode. Plus. Nexuiz is very buggy on such maps (e.g. race-after-qualifying mode fails as after qualifying, everyone starts at the "pole position") as it simply IS NOT MADE FOR THAT ABUSE.

[Icarus]

actually you can complete cyber in the actual race mode with proper race spawns. as for my previous maps like slopez and hagarrun and dibrun i had no idea what the ACTUAL race mode was. im sure 75% of the people who played race when it was only like aggressorrace etc only played qualifying because they didnt know about the actual race mode. as for dibrun2 you CAN play the ACTUAL race mode.

[Moo]

"No.

In race maps, the objective is being fast.

In CTS maps, the objective is to beat it at all, as that is hard enough.

Get the point? "

No...The objective of CTS is to complete it, then optimize your run. BTW, you run in RACES.

"No, my point is, we should not take such frustrating maps INTO Nexuiz. It's just in svn at the moment, not in any release, and should never be. People can play it on their favorite server anyway of course. "

And you'll notice, that on these servers, CTS(ITS RACE, REALLY!!!) maps are played more often than "race" maps. It's because these maps are liked generally by the community. Naturally, the nice and detailed race maps(and other types of maps too) should be put into Nexuiz, then!

[divVerent]

And the "community" which "like" these maps don't actually like the MAPS, but like boasting and watching noobs like me fail at them in spectator mode.

Also... the people who enjoy just being fast already stopped playing race due to the CTS maps being so frustrating to them. You know, it's not fun any more if you fell into the same damn pit at the first jump for the 100th time without succeeding once.


"No...The objective of CTS is to complete it, then optimize your run. BTW, you run in RACES."

Except most people can't even GET to optimize their run as it's impossible to beat to them.

[divVerent]

actually you can complete cyber in the actual race mode with proper race spawns.

It has NO proper race spawns, it lacks spawns with race_place being set for the restart of the match after qualifying. These spawns should be placed on multiple spots so people who were faster in qualifying start in front of the people who were slower in qualifying (like in AN ACTUAL RACE). And they are entirely missing on cyberparcour01.

Code: Select all

                         ###
    ---------------------###---
   /    >>>>  7  5  3  1 ###   \
  /     >>>> 8  6  4  2  ###    \
|     ------------------###     |
%%%%%%%%                 ###|    |
%%%%%%%%                 $$$|    |
| ^ ^ ------------------$$$     |
\                       $$$ <  /
  \                      $$$ < /
   ----------------------$$$---
                         $$$

###:  classname = trigger_race_checkpoint, cnt = 0, targetname = finish
$$$:  classname = trigger_race_checkpoint, cnt = 1, targetname = cp1
%%%:  classname = trigger_race_checkpoint, cnt = 2, targetname = cp2
>:    classname = info_player_race,                 target = finish, angle = 0
1:    classname = info_player_race,                 target = finish, angle = 0, race_place = 1
2:    classname = info_player_race,                 target = finish, angle = 0, race_place = 2
....
8:    classname = info_player_race,                 target = finish, angle = 0, race_place = 8
<:    classname = info_player_race,                 target = cp1,    angle = 180
^:    classname = info_player_race,                 target = cp2,    angle = 90


Directly taken from the docs. Is it so hard to read docs? cyberparcour01 misses the spawnpoints 1 to 8.

[Moo]

"And the "community" which "like" these maps don't actually like the MAPS, but like boasting and watching noobs like me fail at them in spectator mode.

"Except most people can't even GET to optimize their run as it's impossible to beat to them."

NOBODY will complete a map they just don't like. And once again, how will noobs get better? LEARNING TO COMPLETE THESE MAPS.