Let's change the name of this game

[TVR]

race -noun 1. a contest of speed, as in running, riding, driving, or sailing.

contest -noun 1. a race, conflict, or other competition between rivals, as for a prize.

Which is why CTS cannot be considered a competitive race, there simply is no competition or interaction.

CTS is considered a time trial in racing games, therefore playing CTS with other players, but without interaction, is merely time trials on the same server.

[divVerent]

For this the maps should be actually beatable.

Repeating the same stupid jump 100 times and being stuck there does not exactly motivate you. For this, you'd need a different style.

For example, you could make alternate paths with differently spaced (and many, like, 10) platforms, and then a pathway in which you have to crouch. You'd start out with hitting the easiest platform, and gradually go one platform to the right in order to beat it. Using the farther platform means less way to crouch, so you actually win time by getting better. Or, you can use a large trigger_push pushing you to the right, and after this a sharp turn right comes... the farther you jump, the more will the jumppad turn you to the right, and thus the less time you lose.

That way, you can ACTUALLY train it WITHOUT getting frustrated!

[PinkRobot]

CTS is not what this game mode was intended for. It's what it's being used for now mostly, but NOT as intended. Iirc Race was a substitution for the Flag runs on CTF servers where the sole goal had become to make the fastest cap on a map and it was detrimental to the gameplay.

I enjoy both uses by the way. But sometimes I just want to race and not CTS and all that is ever played is CTS on the servers. That's how I lost my appetite for making race maps. I'm probably partly to blame, I made the first CTS map for Nexuiz with the first version of Runrunrun (still using flags for time keeping) so that type of map has also always appealed to me (it had one flaw though, a very small passage that allowed TVR to block the whole map for all players )

How about splitting up this game mode into a Genuine Race and a CTS part? So that mappers and server admins had to choose between them? Maybe we could figure out a way for CTS to become a mode in its own right. Sure, it would probably become more popular than Race but that's not a reason not to do it. How about the first requirement being that a CTS map can NOT be a loop?

I for one would probably start mapping for Race again. Unfortunately none of my maps are really fit to go into the game itself. But an idea for a true-to-style American dirt track ala Knoxville is still brewing

[Icarus]

so basically if i open the .map of each race map that you listed above as "Race" they should all follow the criteria of 8 spawns or whatever?

[divVerent]

Could be done, however, as an autodetection for CTS I'd use the fact that no race place spawns exist.

runrunrun2 BTW qualifies as a race map, due to not being frustrating (it's just water, sure, it makes you slow, but at least it does not freaking kill you). Why can't other race map authors make their maps that way?

Problem is, if we make CTS a separate game mode, we actually SUPPORT that style of maps officially, and thus must include such maps with the game. And that is what really should not happen. To quote LordHavoc on this:

two thinks tick me off in maps:
1. the map is my enemy
(the players are supposed to be my enemy, not the map)
2. nonsensical abstract junk, with no polish, no balancing, no flow

So if such an autodetection happens, it will hide the maps from the menu by default, and a cvar has to be set to switch to them. This can NOT become an official game mode!

[divVerent]

so basically if i open the .map of each race map that you listed above as "Race" they should all follow the criteria of 8 spawns or whatever?

8 spawns was an example, but if it's less than 3, it certainly did misunderstand the game mode.

[Moo]

"Repeating the same stupid jump 100 times and being stuck there does not exactly motivate you. For this, you'd need a different style." - Div0

Or, you could do it the old-fashioned way, which always seems to work (repetition!!!).

Example: I had trouble at first with completing cyberparcour03. However, after trying atleast 10-15 times, I WAS ABLE TO COMPLETE IT!!! I FELT SOOOOOOOOOO AWESOME!!! It was the feeling of well-earned success. Failure and willpower compelled me to complete it, and I did!

Also, I like how you say the maps are unbeatable when clearly several players have beat them.

"Iirc Race was a substitution for the Flag runs on CTF servers where the sole goal had become to make the fastest cap on a map and it was detrimental to the gameplay." - PinkRobot

Well, CTF maps had obstacles too . Plus, CTF evolved as gameplay (although it still keeps the basic concept), why can't race?

And yeah, I like your idea of a new mode, with the concept of CTS but not called CTS (the name is....yeah not exactly the best for the younger players, even though this is the internet.)

[Moo]

@div0: I don't see why we SHOULDN'T support this kind of map officially, when the map is explicitly BUILT to be your enemy. Those who don't like it can refuse to play it.

[Icarus]

to be honest i dont know how cyber is bothering anyone seeing as that its not even in the campaign.

[divVerent]

The problem is that it's bad enough that mostly such maps are made. The game mode is dying, only this abuse survives. And officially supporting CTS maps will lead to ONLY this being ever made again

But good to know that these maps are the cause why PinkRobot makes no more race maps. Not surprised.