Let's change the name of this game

[sev]

I just opened this thread the first time, as I didn't know it was attacking CyberParcour (how should I?).

To be honest, I'm quite dissapointed that this issue was talked about this way...
You simply could have sent me a PM, or a mail "hey, cp01 is too difficult, could you make an easier version?".

I didn't plan the cp maps to be included with nexuiz, but made them for me and the other race players who very much enjoy difficult race maps.
These maps are work in progress, I already made 4 revisions. cp01 is now easier, cp02 is still a maze, a better one for race though. cp03 was intended to be a real challenge for the advanced race payers, I now put in a warning in the map screenshot.

http://www.forums.alientrap.local/viewtopic.php?t=4963
http://www.forums.alientrap.local/viewtopic.php?t=4999
http://www.forums.alientrap.local/viewtopic.php?t=5057

Anyway, if you don't like something about my maps, tell me directly.

[[-z-]]

The problem is that it's bad enough that mostly such maps are made.

Probably one of the most ignorant things I've heard you say, simply because others don't share your vision about what ~Race should be~.

You undermined the Nexrun with this gamemode, whether intentional or not, that's debatable. My point here is that you are then surprised when nexrun/defrag fans capitalize on the gamemode as a replacement for using ctf flags, which only makes sense seeing as how the gamemodes share the same roots regardless of what Webster's dictionary defines 'Race' as.

For a while you COMPLETELY REMOVED FLAG TIMES when more than 1 player was on a server.... leaving server admins to compile their own version if they wanted them, fixing this later with an OBSCURE cvar, 'g_ctf_captimerecord_allow_assisted'.

BAD enough? Really? Jesus christ, I've never seen so many people be so happy about dying on a defrag style map than with Cyber Parcour 1. This map is epic, plain and simple. The latest revision is easy enough for a player of any skill level to complete as Icarus has show above.


Speaking about these maps in a derogatory way, 'CTS', is rude and uncalled for. You repeatedly scare artists away when you pull this kind of shit. Playing off your own agenda as what is ~good for the game~ with two-faced hypocrites like TVR backing you up. He says 'Oh it's GPL, do what you want', avoiding a common vision in another thread but then he backs you up here.

Everything doesn't have to be so black and white all the time. I think there are better ways to compromise than saying mappers are creating bad maps that are ~ruining the game type~ because as the race records for NN Race prove, it's doing just the opposite.

Also the name of this thread is very misleading.

[divVerent]

The problem is that it's bad enough that mostly such maps are made.

Probably one of the most ignorant things I've heard you say, simply because others don't share your vision about what ~Race should be~.

First of all, all I want Race to be is what the dictionaries call it.

If it's a race, it is about finishing faster than everyone else.

Have you ever seen a *race* where regularily, only 10% of the participants finish? No! See.

BAD enough? Really? Jesus christ, I've never seen so many people be so happy about dying on a defrag style map than with Cyber Parcour 1. This map is epic, plain and simple. The latest revision is easy enough for a player of any skill level to complete as Icarus has show above.

I tried the version currently in svn, and fall off too often. Never finished it when trying for a hour.

Everything doesn't have to be so black and white all the time. I think there are better ways to compromise than saying mappers are creating bad maps that are ~ruining the game type~ because as the race records for NN Race prove, it's doing just the opposite.

Trying to help mappers find compromises already failed. I told them to use e.g. water instead of lava like on runrunrun2. Their response: "no, then the noobs can beat the map". These people are elitist bastards seeking to ruin the gaming experience of most players.

Anyway, get your unbeatable maps into that nexrun mod that's supposedly still in progress, but not into the main game, but do not call them race maps. THEY ARE NOT, BY DEFINITION OF THE WORD.

Also, these maps are commonly badly made, even from a technical point of view. They lack support for actual race mode. In qualifying-then-race mode, when the race started, everyone will spawn in the same spot. What is the use of the qualifying then? Maps that do not even fulfill the specs of the game type should NEVER be included with the game. sev should feel free to fix his map, so people actually spawn correctly at the beginning of the __RACE__.

Also, if the map does not do what the game mode is supposed to do, it should not be included with the game. This holds for:

- Nexrun-style maps for Race (IT FREAKING IS NOT A RACE IF 90% OF THE PEOPLE FALL INTO THE VOID ALL THE TIME)
- Subseatrack for CTF (although it is technically CTF, the game mode is abused here)
- ctf_koth (see above)
- mikeeusa-style CTF "find the flag" maps

IMHO Nexrun maps in race are the very same game type abuse as mikeeusa's CTF "find the flag" maps. Sure, some people like hide and seek, and so do others like these nexrun maps. But it's not what the mode is made for.

[[-z-]]

sev should feel free to fix his map, so people actually spawn correctly at the beginning of the __RACE__.

And what better way to go about convincing him to do that than make a "your map is total shit and you're ruining Nexuiz because I said so" thread?

There is a difference between raising awareness and outright offending people.

[divVerent]

I was not mostly critizing sev for making the map, but whoever did it for adding it to Nexuiz. As sev himself said, he did not even intend them to be included with the game, but someone decided that behind his back.

Basically, when a map leads to the question "which asshole designed this", then the map is wrong, not the player. Or would you justify a bad user interface with "the users are just too stupid to use it right - I can use vi well, so it has a good UI"?

[terencehill]

Talking about ctf maps, many players had already lots of fun (me included) trying to beat records, when race mode didn't exist. The best thing was that u could try to beat records on the maps u normally played. U could learn not only to be faster, but also to find the fastest path, and try different startegies using available weapons, missing things in current race maps (I'm not saying that a race map must have them, just noticing the differences).

CTF maps enjoyable as race maps are A LOT and they aren't 'CTS'.

I propose this: let's make CTF maps available also as RACE maps, but not together with the pure race maps, in another category: CTF RACE.

[morfar]

I included it because it looked awesome. And I didn't know it was missing some entities, because I never play Race.
Still, imo it's Race and not CTS. Sure the biggest weakness is the death by falling. But players are not forced to play it. Just as they are not forced to play any official map.

And I have no idea why CTS is popular, I don't like CTS at all. Plus I can't understand why CTF on space maps is popular, which is worse than CTS imo.

[[-z-]]

I included it because it looked awesome. And I didn't know it was missing some entities, because I never play Race.
Still, imo it's Race and not CTS. Sure the biggest weakness is the death by falling. But players are not forced to play it. Just as they are not forced to play any official map.

I agree with your decision to include the map in the game for many of the supporting reasons above (from players such as Icarus, moo and myself).

[alpha]

if you want to c hange a name of the game, make it nexiuz. at least it sounds better

[Ed]

I just played this map to actually see what it was like and see absolutely no point in attempting it again. Please get it out of SVN.