Let's change the name of this game

[divVerent]

Well... turning this map into something easily playable and still challenging would be hard.

As for that maze map... making a good radar map image for it could do it, except you should not die when teleporting back, and the sprite should be shown correctly.

cyberparcour03 however is just awful to play, too random.

[sev]

I didn't mean that it was not supposed to be included, but simply that I didn't make it especially for that reason. Most of the active race players prefer the tricky maps over the ones where you run in a circle 20 times, and then some 20 times more.
The reason for my usage of the entities is quite simple. It doesn't give you any significant advantage if you start a few qu in front of someone else.

In my opinion, CyberParcour_v1r2 is easy enough for less experienced players, I made a video to illustrate how to finish it with no trickjumps, no strafe jumping, no kind of complications or difficlut passages:
EDIT: Posted a video to prove it, now deleted to make room for other files.

If someone is not able to do that, I doubt he/she will enjoy playing any race map at all.

[divVerent]

Well, when slow, it is hitting that thin rail very exactly all the time... and once you try to be fast, you fall down.

All I ask for is some way to NOT die when you fall down ANYWHERE. Be it a teleport to the previous checkpoint (BTW, teleports can now be speed limited, so it can't be abused to get a better time), or jumppads bringing you somewhere good, does not matter.

[Ravage]

Hi there
I think "CTS" race maps are very good for experimented people. The others are boring after 10 times and I think beginners don't really have a good training with these maps.
I play nexuiz since 2 years and I started this mod with the nexuiz 2.5. I learn quickly how to run/jump with "CTS maps" (2 months) and I give thanks for mappers (especially FruitieX, sev and dib).

[R4ND0M]

first of, i have to admit that I never played this mode nor any of its maps.
watching the youtube-vid of one of the critized maps did give me the feeling that its somehow compareable to the bunnytrack gamemode of ut which is still very popular. it kinda works the same way, you have to pass obtacles and die if you fail. once you managed to complete a map you can then try to finish it in a fast(er) time. i gave this mode a try a view times but noticed after a while that i don't have the nerves to play it, since i also don't really like dying constantly
anyway, i know lots of ppl which play it constantly and enjoy it, even as cup-matches on clanbase.

i can understand somehow that it might be frustrating if one implents a gamemode and it evolves in a direction which wasn't intended in the first place. still, if the communtity wants it to be like that i dont understand why it shouldnt be implented.
if the gameplay is too different from the original intention the mode should be -as suggested already- splitted, but integrated as well.
if a mode manages to attract ppl and helps to make nexuiz more popular it can't be a bad thing.

[TVR]

Nexuiz is div0's project to create an FOSS arena shooter that he enjoys, possibly others with similar preferences as well.

Trickjump maps are not included in any other mainstream first person shooter because they completely discard the most integral characteristic of this genre, the aspect of shooting others and being shot at.

These maps are always custom made; sometimes even a comprehensive 'mod' is created, but 'mod' is abbreviation of the term 'modification', the gameplay modification may be drastic to a threshold for which the end result only bears a resemblance to the base game.

Fortunately Nexuiz is licensed under GNU GPL v2, which grants a specific alternative not available with more restrictive licenses, either these trickjump maps and future modifications can remain add-ons, or div0's project can be forked to accommodate them.

[nifrek]

And the "community" which "like" these maps don't actually like the MAPS, but like boasting and watching noobs like me fail at them in spectator mode.

That is simply not true, I see newbies asking for help and I see them getting help from players who are able to do those maps. And in any case, anyone acting that way with "noobs" deserves to be kicked from servers. I don't like how you keep referring to players that are good as "elitists", that's just not how things go on servers. Sure there are assholes, I can't deny that, but the majority are very helpful to anyone who asks. I usually join race server when it is empty, and if a "noob" joins and I see he can't do the map I'm playing on, I will offer him to try an easier one, and try to show him how he can gain speed to be able to jump longer gaps that are required on harder maps, be helpful in any way I can.

"No...The objective of CTS is to complete it, then optimize your run. BTW, you run in RACES."

Except most people can't even GET to optimize their run as it's impossible to beat to them.

Yes, I agree with that. IMO we should just have seperate servers for CTS and RACE maps. That would be less problematic I would guess, if the servers are identified accordingly. But again, that is up to admins. This is exactly the same problem as the Nexican server mentioned in that other thread.

Also, I'm pretty sure that's not the first time I said this, maybe not on the forums, but mappers that make race maps should think about all skill levels. So instead of making very hard tricks where you die when you miss, they should rather turn those tricks into routes that are harder to do that when succeeded make you gain time on the easier routes. I've been working on 2 maps that are like that but I suck and I am slow at mapping so I can't even show an example for it. It is very complicated to do, have to make sure every part of the maps can be done easily and test all the hard parts to check how much time can be gained against each easier parts, etc.

CTS maps should be seen as "challenge" maps rather than Race, that is for sure.

However, you would be surprised at the amount of "noobs" joining race servers and spending 2 hours on a single map, asking and receiving help. When they get stuck at one part, they'll ask for someone to show them how to do it, etc. It's as much puzzle maps as the porto maps, really, which also are not typical Race maps either but nobody is complaining about those. There are various type of maps because Race mode is still new, people are trying different things with the mode, it doesn't matter if that is not how it was intended to be used, you obviously cannot control that, you either accept the diversity of it all and we'll find ways to seperate those into categories somehow, or you stay frustrated.

It IS an issue that needs to be fixed, but saying everyone that doesn't agree with you are elitists does not really do much except ending up with threads like this one where everyone is arguing "I like this and I don't like that" without trying to find a solution. You can be on either side, but everyone will just want what they want.

EDIT: sorry R4ND0M, I had not read your post before posting this, we're pretty much saying the same thing.

[divVerent]

However, you would be surprised at the amount of "noobs" joining race servers and spending 2 hours on a single map, asking and receiving help.

Tried that. Even with showpressedkeys and SEEING how others do the jumps, and these people explaining it a hundred times, it's still impossible to do for me. My mouse motion is simply not smooth enough.

There are various type of maps because Race mode is still new, people are trying different things with the mode, it doesn't matter if that is not how it was intended to be used, you obviously cannot control that, you either accept the diversity of it all and we'll find ways to seperate those into categories somehow, or you stay frustrated.

The problem is not diversity, but the lack thereof. When on a server, people always vote for these impossible maps, and never for playable ones. So the ones that are actually fun never get to be played.

[Sepelio]

The problem is not diversity, but the lack thereof. When on a server, people always vote for these impossible maps, and never for playable ones. So the ones that are actually fun never get to be played.

I've seen this happen quite a lot I have to agree. Normally its the case someone shouts "VOTE FOR XYZ" then they are funnily enough the only person that completes it usually...

[master[mind]]

What is needed are videos explaining(with words) how to complete these maps. The space_race map included with 2.5.1 is quite challenging in the first jump...FIRST JUMP. Either I'm a complete idiot or that jump is father than it looks. I like the idea of splitting the race into two modes, but for the "complete this almost impossible challenge" maps, there needs to be some kind of guidance for noobs(and me) to keep from scaring them off.
BTW, I have tried that jump with many methods with no success.
I like both styles of race mode.
Going for speed is fun.
Completing a challenge is satisfying.

Edit:

I think the included race mode is something that sets Nexuiz apart from other FPS's.
We include it with a game type to show that the game is about skill and motion.
It doesn't have to be incorporated as a mod.
Makes it easier for the noobs to play the maps, and yes, when you finish a hard race map, your skill improves. It is good movement practice.