New weapons (and some old one) don't fit Nexuiz

[PCLizard]

That's correct, it isn't hitscan, hitscan weapons are being phased out, I forget why. It seems that the rifle is going to be the new sniper weapon. Look at the changes for the Nex on the roadmap. I think it is getting damage-range falloff, which might start to make it less of a sniper weapon. Unless the falloff is reversed, like with the alien sniper gun from Halo (Particle Rifle? can't remember the name).

For the theme of nexuiz, I don't really imagine bullets in a futuristic alien game. And last time I checked what it said was on the front page "Simple, fast, intense.....". There shouldn't really be a "sniper weapon" its a hitscan weapon. Nexuiz isn't a game where you sit in a corner and try and get almost impossible headshots on people with the rifle while they are moving insanely fast around you. The Nex right now is completely fine as it is and fits nexuiz's style almost the best.

[Flying Steel]

For the theme of nexuiz, I don't really imagine bullets in a futuristic alien game.

Then just make or consider them railguns or coilguns with the same in-game stats. Problem solved, IMHO.

And last time I checked what it said was on the front page "Simple, fast, intense.....". There shouldn't really be a "sniper weapon" its a hitscan weapon.

The Nex gun is a sniper weapon, and is also the only hitscan weapon currently. The Nex has been in the game from the beginning I believe.

Nexuiz isn't a game where you sit in a corner and try and get almost impossible headshots on people with the rifle while they are moving insanely fast around you.

Well they have to be both pretty close and in a relatively wide or open space to be moving insanely fast around you. And if they are running towards or away from you or just standing still for a moment, you might as well be FPS Doug with that camping rifle.

The Nex right now is completely fine as it is and fits nexuiz's style almost the best.

Well you said you didn't want there to be a sniper weapon and you implied you wanted weapon(s) that could hit people moving insanely fast around you; this change might very well benefit both. The Nex becomes less effective at long ranged sniping do to falloff while the new faster refire combined with its legacy hitscan ability makes it effective for killing people speeding around you.

[Samual]

Wow... Longass post... Well.. Here goes!

That's correct, it isn't hitscan, hitscan weapons are being phased out, I forget why. It seems that the rifle is going to be the new sniper weapon. Look at the changes for the Nex on the roadmap. I think it is getting damage-range falloff, which might start to make it less of a sniper weapon. Unless the falloff is reversed, like with the alien sniper gun from Halo (Particle Rifle? can't remember the name).

This simply isn't true... Rifle IS hitscan, just has aspects about it that make it more realistic. Hitscan weapons aren't being phased out either, 1/3rd of our weapons are hitscan (5 out of 15). Also, the changes you mentioned on the roadmap aren't by the devs. They're patches by other users which we might or might not use.. We haven't even committed them yet. (Most likely we will though, as they're good ideas).

It's what the community wants in the end....if the community rejects a weapon added to the game, should that weapon stay? I think not...and vice versa for that matter.

Well, yes. But only if the weapon is very unpopular on the public servers, or if it's of absurd design. (For example, the tag was both of these things.. Which is why we removed it.) Generally we won't listen to some players who completely reject the idea... Due to the fact that they're completely ignorant of change. (Thankfully a good majority of you aren't, but some are.)

Also (this is somewhat related to the above comment about hooks) please, mappers, don't remove the laser using mapinfo (re: campgrounds/francinator). That actually changes the game mode quite a bit. When you are messing around with basic things like the weapons that are available when a player spawns, that is changing the game mode. There is nothing wrong with playing with the game mode, but let the server admins do that. If you want to create a new game mode that doesn't use a laser, talk to the alientrap devs about making a new one and then design your map for that.

Yes I agree 100%.. campgrounds was ruined for me because of this.. It could have been a really nice map though. Personally i'm not against some things though, like using mapinfo to add hook (Infact, this is how it SHOULD be done.. Unless the server admin makes sure all the maps he uses work with nicely with hook.).

The new weapons don't fit Nexuiz. This is the overwhelming consensus among the people that I have heard talking about the new weapons. It wasn't really much of an issue when the new weapons first appeared after 2.5, because existing maps didn't have the new weapons and most servers didn't use them, so players didn't really notice them. But it's now an issue that gets brought up a lot more as mappers are starting to place the newer weapons on new maps. Server admins have to go through a number of steps to try to balance out the new maps to have them use the traditional weapons.

Well, i'm pretty mixed on this. The only weapon I don't think fit Nexuiz, is the campingrifle. Tag and HLAC were fine. However, in my opinion.. The people who didn't like any of these weapons were only upset because they didn't want to learn something new. This happens a lot it seems, and I wish people would actually try it and not just say "Hell no, this is ridiculous."... Did you know that most of the weapons we added before got that comment? (Crylink, for example)

Among the traditional weapons (from before 2.5), the laser, electro, crylink and nex seem to fit in with the Nexuiz style. However, the shotgun, machine gun, grenade launcher and rocket launcher are old military style weapons. If the Alientrap wanted to adjust the weapons between Nexuiz versions, they could perhaps change the existing weapons so they fit more of the style of nexuiz. The weapons could have the same gameplay features, but (for example) the rocket would be a more futuristic projectile weapon, instead of a using a rocket designed in the 1950s.

Hmm well you have a point, shotgun and uzi are rather old.. (I don't think gl/rl are old at all tbh) However, we have revamped these weapons so much that they actually DO fit with the style and gameplay of Nexuiz.

Of the new weapons, the HLAC is the only one that seems to fit Nexuiz. However, it is too powerful right now. The HLAC really should just have the power reduced and then just replace the machinegun (since it is basically a laser-based machinegun anyway).

I disagree here entirely.. Shouldn't be reduced in power, and the uzi should not be removed.

The rifle and the fireball are just bad ideas for Nexuiz. Maybe they fit in another game, but they don't fit in Nexuiz. Any weapon that takes zero skill to use is bad (like the fireball). The rifle is not only an old style weapon, but it is very difficult to use effectively. My understanding is that it is not a hitscan weapon, but a very fast projectile weapon.

The rifle is a bad idea, yes. It was added with the intent of replacing the Nexgun (div0)... But this simply won't happen due to the fact that the Nexgun is becoming very balanced, and very nice to use... However, fireball is fine.. It does fit gameplay and it does fit combos in my opinion. Sure it needs more balancing, new effects, new models, and new sounds.. It's still VERY FAR in development, so give it a break until you see the final outcome.

Many feel that the nex gun is the most dominant weapon in the game. The only things that balance the dominance of the nex are 1) map design (enclosed maps with smaller spaces) 2) limited availability of ammo 3) limited accessibility of the nex. I've never been happy that the nex is such a dominant weapon, but I also feel that the nex is absolutely necessary to help balance against the super fast speed of players in nexuiz (especially in CTF). Once someone gets moving fast enough, the nex becomes the only weapon that is really effective in stopping them. Sometimes, even the nex can't stop a super fast player.

Meh, I don't think it's dominant. 2.5.2 has the Nexgun at 110 damage, and this is fine for gameplay (It's a bit overpowered in CTF, while a bit underpowered in DM... But it's at a good balance). But for the most part, maps should have less ammo and less spawns for the Nexgun... This would make the Nexgun fantastic for CTF, as the only reason it's overpowered is because the maps freely use it too much.

1) I think there should be at least another nex-like weapon (I guess that is what the rifle was intended to be)
2) I think a melee weapon could work well, if it is thought out properly and tested.
3) I have always liked the hand grenade as a weapon (from quake).

1) No... Long range hitscan weapons are pretty bad for gameplay, and are usually very overpowered... It would be hard to balance another long range hitscan weapon. (CR already had a lot of balance issues... It reloading was the solution to that)
2) Ehh.. Maybe. A very short range weapon could work, however, I think it should be off hand and not an actual weapon that you can switch to. Or perhaps have it only available when you have no amm-- Well that last option is impossible, due to the laser... But.. I had the idea of making laser secondary into a melee attack. In my opinion, this is the best way to do it.
3) Doesn't really fit Nexuiz... Also, we already have a grenade of that sort (In a way) with secondary of the GL... Quake didn't have a secondary, and I imagine if it did-- They would have done it the way we did.

[divVerent]

First of all: "just because the community rejects stuff, it shall be removed". Odd that only very few community members DO reject them. The majority of the players actually likes these weapons.

Secondly: if you had checked recent svn logs, the rifle will soon be the ONLY weapon capable of one-hit-kills. The Nex will get noticably less damage and faster refire. So the "Nex replacement process" is fully in place. As the rifle is balanced much better (not just because of the reload, but also because of the higher requirement of accuracy), this will be a change for the better.

However, nobody requires the bullets weapons to look like they do, and to shoot what they do. Feel free to submit a patch to replace the weapons and their effects by something futuristic. Also note that shotgun, machinegun, rifle are VERY traditional "unrealistic first person shooter weapons" (see Quake 2 and Unreal Tournament from 1999) and thus DO fit in a game like Nexuiz. But again, the graphics design of these guns, just like of anything else, is open for discussion. Nobody insists on them shooting "bullets" and looking like military guns. Make them shoot "plasma darts", and make them glowing and colorful. Why not?

[parasti]

Rocket launcher has remote detonation, which makes it fit the futuristic theme. But that's ignoring the mutilations that RL is being put through for 2.6 -- due to the ridiculously high speed remote detonation as well as laser guidance are totally useless anyway.

HLAC is great, but way overpowered -- I feel like a cheat every time I use it. If you're aim is half good and you're within a close proximity to someone with 200/200 HP, you can take the guy out in a few seconds.

Camping rifle is fun but also overpowered. Don't start about the reload making it "balanced". The reload is just an annoyance that takes a bit of time to get accustomed to, afterwards you basically have a high-powered nex and machine gun in one weapon.

Fireball, on the other hand, simply isn't fun. Its two fire modes seem to have ended up on the same weapon by accident, they have no connection. Plus the secondary is just a slightly modified rocket launcher (before the RL got crippled). I can't believe this is what TAG seeker is being replaced by.

[ai]

I don't know, but if Nex will be a shock rifle I don't think I will like this game anymore. There's really no reason to change it. Change the rifle model and make that a shock rifle while allowing head shots with the Nex.
Oh well, I do believe Nexuiz is taking a turn for the worse, don't know if I will stick around much after that.

[divVerent]

This was a decision by our game designer, LordHavoc (see credits).

If you feel it is the wrong direction to go, feel free to make a fork. Actually, it's quite likely one will happen after the changes in 2.6. And that would be the ideal way to find out which way is the better. If then base Nexuiz dies and everyone plays the fork, that would be a sure answer

[Samual]

This was a decision by our game designer, LordHavoc (see credits).

If you feel it is the wrong direction to go, feel free to make a fork. Actually, it's quite likely one will happen after the changes in 2.6. And that would be the ideal way to find out which way is the better. If then base Nexuiz dies and everyone plays the fork, that would be a sure answer

Well in case you forgot, we're going to add a mods menu and a "classic Nexuiz" mod.. Well we still need a new name for it But, if more people play that mod.. Then we know we made a mistake...

Although I can tell you, I personally think about 90% of the changes in the new balance suck... All others are fantastic.. (Faster MG, new Nex -- slightly, etc.. Some are good, some are VERY bad... One of the very bad, for example, is the crylink)

By the way, I might be one of those people who helps fork IF NEEDED.... Which I hope it isn't.

[ai]

By the way, I might be one of those people who helps fork IF NEEDED.... Which I hope it isn't.

Same here. But yeah, let's just first see how the whole thing turns out.

[Flying Steel]

This simply isn't true... Rifle IS hitscan, just has aspects about it that make it more realistic.

Are you sure? Because at least in 2.5.1, the Rifle has a "speed" value (20,000 inches per second) like all the other weapons except the Nex gun, which has no shot speed value because it is the only hitscan weapon I thought.

2) Ehh.. Maybe. A very short range weapon could work, however, I think it should be off hand and not an actual weapon that you can switch to. Or perhaps have it only available when you have no amm-- Well that last option is impossible, due to the laser... But.. I had the idea of making laser secondary into a melee attack. In my opinion, this is the best way to do it.

And the laser really needs this now. With the new armor system (200 rot free), it just doesn't have enough firepower to act as a backup weapon at all IMO. A powerful melee secondary attack would increase its usefulness as a weapon.

My offer still stands to model/texture a new laser model with a more obvious "melee feature" if you will code it. Though I think Yoda almighty's Gauntlet model would also be excellent for this purpose.

Some are good, some are VERY bad... One of the very bad, for example, is the crylink)

Agree! I want my old crylink back! T'was a fun little weapon.