New weapons (and some old one) don't fit Nexuiz

[parasti]

Anyone notice that HLAC secondary is far better for jumping than actually killing people? That's all I ever use it for.

[Flying Steel]

The HLAC's high spread was extremely annoying, which leaves only the fire rate to discuss. And yes, there I also liked the faster one.

Well I just used "short controlled bursts" with the HLAC wich worked well with its spread growth (the spread being extrememly minimal for the first 4-6 shots).

But if that's off the table, could it have a heat-build-up like one of the Halo plasma guns, where if you fire it for too long without a rest it has to cool down? Kind of the like the reload on the Rifle.

Either way, it still seems like the fire rate could be kept high if the damage and edge damage were brought down. Then it'd occupy a role somewhere between the MG and Hagar, with the with a fire rate and speed closer to the former and blast radius and close in damage (from the secondary) similar to the later.

[FraNcoTirAdoR]

I'm absolutely for the idea of the heating camping rifle, thats much less distracting than reloading, there should be however some cool indicator that shows that its heated up even after you switch to another weapon and back and its still too warm and not ready to use yet. Or it could be cool in combination with the "heat-vision" we were talking about, so people either spam with it, or either look through wall for a second and shoot only 1-2. That would be 2 new (and absolutely unique) function hit by once.

There were some discussions earlier about hagar secondary to change to proximity mines, that would be huge fun too, anyone likes this idea? Hagar would be finally very usable for attacking and defending, just like mortar and (the future) RL.

About HLAC: nexuiz really shouldnt include another hagar that uses cell ammo I think... HLAC is just totally not unique weapon at all, it should have a function that distinguishes it from the other weapons MUCH more. How about adding HLAC secondary a Lightning gun-like function? Yeah I know machinegun is supposed to be something like LG in Nexuiz, but it would be still quite unique this way in my opinion. It would even make sense, since its an energy/laser weapon. Of course shaft can only work well with a proper antilag Ohhhhh yeah, and its Heavy Laser ASSAULT Cannon, shaft-like weapons are only good for attacking, so in this meaning it would make more sense too

[Mirio]

I would like to know how these numbers relate to other free games out there. How do Open Arena, Warsow, etc compare to these figures?

Warsow:

Hard to tell, lots of mirrors.

average of 4400 unique players/day (double of 0.4)

[FraNcoTirAdoR]

FrAnCorPharIorARrArR!

LOL

Maybe give the halac secondary more beams, more damage, etc, so it can be what tZork wanted it to be?

I am not against the damage or refire of the HLAC secondary but against the original idea, its pretty much just a shotgun. Im telling these ideas because there are several weapon functions that are just not unique enough, or dont distinguish from eachother enough.

[ai]

@Flying: I go by the rule: 'Don't fix what isn't broken.' The laser isn't broken hence no need to fix it. You just want to change stuff for the sole purpose of changing stuff.
Btw, I used caps to more clearly visualize what I meant. Sure, visions can change, however, the vision in case of laser hasn't changed, nor shall it.

I know you just want to make Nexuiz what you want it to be cause you're apparently too lazy to fork your own and change stuff. I know other people agree with me to not change the laser, so, it's more people against than for.
I am an old school player, I am for changing Nexuiz, but not changing it so that it sucks or completely take away why I play Nexuiz in the first place.

The reason why I am against most of your ideas is that most of your ideas kills Nexuiz as we know it to create something totally different. You seem to have no respect whatsoever for what it was and is and just focus on what it "should" be. And you disregard all the people who love Nexuiz the way has been since the very beginning (with some changes here and there of course). Basically saying "Screw them! It's time for new era!".
This kind of attitude is just plain wrong and as you noticed, I'm not a fan of. You say I'm stubborn? You don't even listen to anything I've said, not even critique to your work so that you could learn and make it better. You're the stubborn here and also rather arrogant to be honest.
And also, just because I'm against your ideas you actually try to insult me, trying to make it personal. None of my disputes with your ideas has anything to do with you personally, if you were mature enough you would have known that.

Attacking people personally just because they disagrees with your ideas, and jump into bed with the ones who likes them, that's called arrogance.

[Flying Steel]

@Flying: I go by the rule: 'Don't fix what isn't broken.' The laser isn't broken hence no need to fix it.

The ability to hold on to more hitpoints without rot in 2.6 balance breaks the laser as it has always been- a weapon that can actually kill people. It might also make speeds possible that require what some feel are overpowered weapons like the old Nex to be used as a counterbalance to lone gun, lightspeed flag captures and such.

Whether or not that means it is broken, it doesn't really matter if it can be improved.

You just want to change stuff for the sole purpose of changing stuff.

I want to see if there is a better way, run experiments of different sizes and ask questions, not say 'this is how it was, this is how it must always be or else it sucks'.

Btw, I used caps to more clearly visualize what I meant.

You were using caps and other methods to make an ABSOLUTE POSITION THAT SHOULD NOT BE QUESTIONED. I prefer to use specific values and settings to communicate specific possible changes or alternatives. Like what if the laser did 50 instead of 35 damage or fall damage started to take place at 30 MPS instead of 40 MPS. But you just ignore these without considering them.

Sure, visions can change, however, the vision in case of laser hasn't changed, nor shall it.

It probably won't change altogether, but it could also very well evolve.

So sure, it'll still be used for mobility and I want this to continue. But that doesn't mean this much mobility and this little usefulness as a backup weapon.

I know you just want to make Nexuiz what you want it to be cause you're apparently too lazy to fork your own and change stuff.

The same option is open to you. Or you could play older versions. But you are not lazy for not doing that, and neither am I.

I know other people agree with me to not change the laser, so, it's more people against than for.

Leaving aside the fact you are not a telepath, if a majority of forum users are with you on this, then that could still not matter if the devs decide a new direction and/or it is more popular with the flow of new players. Open discussion can help make the best of what maybe is going to happen anyway.

The reason why I am against most of your ideas is that most of your ideas kills Nexuiz as we know it to create something totally different.

Why do you insist on this kind of drama? A slight damage boost to the laser would kill everything the game is? A slight boost to fall damage would kill it?

You seem to have no respect whatsoever for what it was and is and just focus on what it "should" be. And you disregard all the people who love Nexuiz the way has been since the very beginning (with some changes here and there of course). Basically saying "Screw them! It's time for new era!".

This kind of attitude is just plain wrong and as you noticed, I'm not a fan of.

It's not your place to make gross assumptions about what I'm about and then go around sending threads off topic, flaming me with wise-ass comments. This viewpoint of yours is the source of this whole conflict. You have developed an attitude against me and now every time I say something, you respond to me rather than what I said. Which is fine if you did it via PM, like I suggested.

For example, you really think I want to get off this forum and play call of duty? Well then by that logic I should assume that you want to get off this forum and play Nexuiz 1.0. But this obviously isn't the case or else we wouldn't be here, so don't keep making these wise-ass observations unless your goal is to be insulting or annoying (which is what it seems to me).

So this kind of crusader attitude of yours I find to be just plain wrong, and I am not a fan of it.

You say I'm stubborn? You don't even listen to anything I've said, not even critique to your work so that you could learn and make it better. You're the stubborn here and also rather arrogant to be honest.

This is unrelated, you can verbally blast my content concepts to pieces, I don't care, your flaming of me on topics like this is what is in bad form.

What you are probably doing here is combining two unrelated events into a greater, darker vision of me that fuels your reactions. I don't share your vision of Nexuiz art style, if it even has one at the moment, and I am open to changes to the game's physics, so therefore I am a threat to the game's direction and success and only you can thwart my evilness.

And also, just because I'm against your ideas you actually try to insult me, trying to make it personal. None of my disputes with your ideas has anything to do with you personally, if you were mature enough you would have known that.

Since you possess such maturity, maybe you could calmly look at how you've responded to my posts recently. See which one of us was the first to start the insulting language.

Attacking people personally just because they disagrees with your ideas, and jump into bed with the ones who likes them, that's called arrogance.

It must be a big bed, because it looks like it includes everyone besides you. You are the only one who keeps dragging me into these little flame wars, I have no quarrel with anyone else on these forums. You are the only one who can't keep a disagreement civil (with me).

[TVR]

... Like what if the laser did 50 instead of 35 damage ...

The 35 damage that the Laser does is quite significant, it has historically been better than the average for the shotgun primary, shot for shot.

But the real advantages that Laser holds over every other weapon is its zero-spread, highest-speed, ammo-less, high-force splash, perfect for juggling anyone anywhere, including snipers.

[Flying Steel]

... Like what if the laser did 50 instead of 35 damage ...

The 35 damage that the Laser does is quite significant, it has historically been better than the average for the shotgun primary, shot for shot.

But the real advantages that Laser holds over every other weapon is its zero-spread, highest-speed, ammo-less, high-force splash, perfect for juggling anyone anywhere, including snipers.

I agree, when players have 100 armor and 100 health, no rot.

But the 2.6 balance is on course to move that to 200 armor and 100 health as the max without rot, which I am perfectly fine with, but then the laser needs a corresponding boost for it to hold its place, like alot of the other weapons have received it seems to me.

Alternatively, I'd suggest making the 2.6 laser primary do 100 damage that falls off quickly with range to 50 and then to 25 or so.

I think this would also go well with the shotgun damage/ammo increase it sounded like you were suggesting earlier, and that kojak/kojun (can't always keep them straight ) Alien? and myself I believe are also for.

Basically, if the laser was just a tad more like the shotgun, in being more powerful at close range (but still good at messing up snipers with push) then the shotgun could run out of ammo much faster and we wouldn't rely on it as much as a backup weapon.

[Grasshopper]

Flying steel has touched a good point . How do we keep players after the download . I see the devs trying new things which is good . They are simply working toward figuring out what keeps the interests peaked . I also think that the focus of that should get more attention . After all thats what we all want anyway . Is it the graphics ? is it new weapons ? is it game modes ?
I have found that when i play On HOCTF that there has been a recent surge of new players . They have many questions about the game and want to learn . I have seen that when you help them they also stick around . I have taken some new players off to private servers and shown them how to aim , laser jump , strafe , bunny hop , etc . once they find out how to work the game it becomes easier for them and they have more fun . In turn they reciprocate the same for another new player .
The devs are trying hard with weps and new features , good job fellas . But i think it has come down to the advanced players to teach our new friends . We cannot rely solely on the dev's ideas to attract and keep players . It is our duty as a community and as players to help the new

little off topic sry