new players to nexuiz

[Oblivion]

I don't think this has anything to do with the way nexuiz hs different mechanics at all. I think it's what makes Nexuiz unique even, the thing that keeps you coming back.

And yes, considering the graphics limitations of nexuiz, I wouldn't play it if it played exactly like every other FPS games out there. I myself am in a team developing another game which is very much a traditional FPS. Yet I still play nexuiz, simply because it's different.

The issues are simple:

1) The current weapon balance favors the 'noob weapons' horribly. As has been said in countless arguments in IRC. The Machine Gun and Shotgun are currently probably the most powerful easy-to-use weapons in default nexuiz. Which basically means, players will prefer them over the harder-to-use 'higher weapons' - e.g. rockets/nexuiz/grenade launcher. Damage-per-second-wise, they simply are no match for the spammy death of MG and the easy availability of shotguns.

As such the results are predictable - they will never take the effort to learn higher weapons. The weapon 'heirarchy' is upside down.

2) The current crop of 'elite' players do little to help newbies. Once upon a time, experienced players would go out of their way to teach a noob how to bunnyjump, how to laserjump, etc. Now they just waltz into a server, kill all the noobs, and leave. Usually without a SINGLE word spoken. Or worse, brag about it.

How many people actually say 'hi' anymore when a noob says 'hello'? How many people take time to stop and type a longwinded explanation of how something works when a noob asks them, even when they know it would mean their death? You don't. You'd sooner have someone tell you to 'press f10' than actually tell you. How many people play the game for the fun, not for the scores? You don't either. You'd have elite players quitting as soon as they start losing, players typefragging simply because someone did that to them once, skilled players joining stacked winning teams when they should've known better, players ignoring chat or worse, actually telling people that 'this game is for fragging, not chatting".

They learn soon enough that arrogance is the way in nexuiz. So they stop asking. They become silent players too, no matter how bad they are.

When I first started to play nexuiz. I was like them. I didn't have any idea how to laserjump. I played like that for a week or so, then asked someone. I still remember his username, though he does not play anymore - Bender. We were the only people in the server, and he gladly taught me everything from laserjumping to wallclimbing.

I don't see that anymore. We don't have communities anymore. Even the clans are dying. Everything is exclusive. From the hidden servers to the 1on1 events that noobs have no idea about. Where before we had 'teaching' servers. There was a clan/community which focused exclusively on teaching new players I think. And there were clans which took in less skilled players and taught them, instead of headhunting for the most skilled players around regardless if they were actually assholes ingame.

P.S. The reason why I like wide open maps is not for camping. It's because closed maps restrict speed. If you have a ping higher than 100 you'll have great difficulty executing the 'wall-bouncing' elite players take for granted. Much less at my normal 300-400.

P.P.S. I haven't played nexuiz for a while now. It just gets too frustrating. The team stacking, the unfriendly skilled players, etc. etc. Might not for a while still.

[halogene]

How many people actually say 'hi' anymore when a noob says 'hello'? How many people take time to stop and type a longwinded explanation of how something works when a noob asks them, even when they know it would mean their death? You don't.

I do... always. Without exception. But maybe it's just me? I don't know. I have noticed, though, that compared to a year or two ago, I see more people just playing and not chatting a word at all, even skilled/experienced players. I usually start to chat to people while playing, some seem to get annoyed but others chat back and the atmosphere instantly gets better in the game.

I say, if you want a good atmosphere in a game, go and create it yourself. You'll get feedback one way or the other.

[Flying Steel]

the veteran players are unwilling to sacrifice what they want to see in Nexuiz, and unwilling to compromise with the new players, who have their own idea of what they want Nexuiz to be.
. . .
maybe if both sided came to a compromise on their own, and presented it to the developers in an organized manner, then it might be taken into consideration, and make Nexuiz a better game all around. but to reach that compromise, BOTH sides will have to sacrifice a little.

The trouble is there are not two well represented "sides", but only one side with a voice that carries. There's the veteran players who are vocal and uncompromising on the forums and IRC, and then there are loads of new players who come and go very quickly because the gameplay doesn't hold their interest.

Then there's me, the lorax who speaks for the newbes. I occasionally take veterans to task because their stubbornness on giving up or changing even the smallest element of gameplay is strangling the game's future by turning off new blood in droves. And oddly enough, even though they fight for every last "unique" feature of Nexuiz, they seem to spend more and more time playing Call of Duty and other craptastic tactical shooters which have no such features. So there's a kind of veteran exodus from Nexuiz too, it seems to me.

[halogene]

If I understood you right, you were suggesting to remove bunny hopping and laser/weapon jumping in order to make the gameplay more intuitive for newbies? If this is the case, I do not agree. I vote for keeping at least bunny hopping and laser/weapon jumping for the following reasons:

Bunny hopping is just fun - the way to gain speed by carefully selecting your hopping path makes moving very fluent and elegant if you are moving fast. I just like that from an aesthetic/fun perspective. It's like doing long drifts with a car without touching anything. Or like flying through a twisted canyon close above the ground.

Laser/weapon jumping is a great way to gain speed quickly and to get out of close combat instantly. Sacrificing a reasonable amount of health for that makes you have to think about when/if to do weapon jumps. In my opinion this greatly enhances the depth of gameplay. Also, if you can't do weapon jumps it would be only logical to drastically remove the push effect from the weapons and juggling with opponents is in my humble opinion the funniest part of the game by far (I used to have quite a high "accident" rate in my "preferred weapons" statistics on DCC, didn't check for a long time though).

[halogene]

Maybe we can approach the issue from another way. How about if we try to improve the knowledge/skill transfer from skilled players to newbies? We could, for example, add a message at the start of the game that players with a certain suffix to their nicks (like, for example ">TUTOR<" or similar) form a kind of point of contact for new players. I believe often the very new players don't dare to ask anyone, especially not players that seem very skilled. Would the so-called veterans support this?

Sorry for double posting, but I felt this idea didn't really fit into my previous post.

[paperclips]

Besides what C.Brutail said. This is a social problem and not fixable by technical stuff.

Ok, by all means, tutorials are nice, even more so if demos were supplied with the game and played during tutorial that showed how it looks like when a noob and the master jedi runs around and do their stuff on a map and of course all the degrees of skills in between. BUT that can one already do by simply spectate a player online. IIRC its also already a line with "spectate to learn", in the tutorial.

Otherwise, the vaccine consists of humble adequate helpfulness. In other words being a carebear. Here I could list a whole bunch of NOT helpful stuff, but I just say that how you act in game is a statement of what is ok and whats not.

As soon as someone says: "This is my fi.." / "I have only played for mo.." I start typing: "Welcome and hello, if you have any questions, please ask "
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I think these things are at least a good start:

I don't use the shade grey on my character, visually impaired or not, people can see me and learn to aim.
I use laser IF I shoot at a typing player.
I play with "cl_handicap X" to level things out if needed. OR just the laser.

And of course first of all, gaming is NOT about winning/being "rite on tho internets". That only applies when the opponent have a chance. Otherwise its just slaughter/what some refer to as "raep" and not fun OR helpful at all.

[halogene]

+1

I totally agree. And yes, coming to mention it, I too use bright colors for my character so people can see where I am. I also regularly use cl_handicap.

BTW does this handycap thingy even work on DCC's Plain Delight? I often get the feeling setting it up to 2 doesnt change a thing. Sometimes I set it up to 5 or so but still do not notice much of an effect.

Anyway, I'd really suggest people who are willing to teach new players the basics to show some kind of tag in their nick so that new players dare to ask them. I bet most of the new players just think "oh boy this is too darn hard, I'll never have a chance". Especially since the skill level on DCC's Plain Delight is sometimes incredible high (relatively spoken, meaning that I find myself in the lower half of the scoring table).

How could we ensure that new players know it is ok to ask? I don't think a simple server message is enough. I think there should be a personal signal from the experienced player that indicates "ask me". That way everybody knows it is ok to ask at least that person.

[Ayu]

I've never really tried to differ between games, I play Nexuiz, exactly how I play Quake 3:

1) Small bunnyhops everywhere
2) Fast strafing around corners and for mid air turns

It's worked for 10 years quite nicely

[paperclips]

BTW does this handycap thingy even work on DCC's Plain Delight?

Yes, it works, its a clientside didlything. So one have to reconnect to the server if one changes the cl_handicap value.

..some kind of tag in their nick..

You "guise" know what would be really cool?
If there was a way for a server admin to put a hm.. mark/medal or the like next to a players nick in the scorelist, that this player have a long track of being a frequent/helpful/nice player on the server. As in a "trustie, like a +V on IRC, a VP person, Santas helper of the year and so fourth or however one wants to put it".

However, I guess this would be tightly link with a (global)authentication system. Otherwise a great chance of there being lies and then followed by gunfire. Ok.. so there is gunfire anyways and the medal to nick could be a ip thing. But this would provide some nourishment for a stronger server specific culture, partly on how a server is run and then the players. Which on the other hand make it hard for new up and coming servers to establise them selfs, even if they are admin'ed well.
Players would also notice on a server if a mark/medal/indicator means something or its just a "meh.."-reason. So that stuff sorts itself out.

[Ronan]

I also regularly use cl_handicap.

BTW does this handycap thingy even work on DCC's Plain Delight? I often get the feeling setting it up to 2 doesnt change a thing. Sometimes I set it up to 5 or so but still do not notice much of an effect.

If the system hasn't changed, use setreport cl_handicap 2, so the server know how to calculate your damage, otherwise it use your handicap value at connect time.