Ladder penalty point discussion

[divVerent]

This design really sounds slow and maybe error prone. Before running it, please check manually if it does what it should do right.

With just three matches and four months required to get rid of one PP, I'd propose the limit of PPs to be set to three - four points and you're out.

As another idea, offenses may generate more than one PP and the limit could be kept. Basically, deliberate rule violations may be worth two PPs (like, leaving the server, or entering a wrong/incomplete result), while accidental mistakes would be worth just one (like, not recording the demo, not accepting/declining a challenge).

As for the numbers - I did not expect ladder players to be so "inactive"... just three matches in four months...

[Urmel]

As for the numbers - I did not expect ladder players to be so "inactive"... just three matches in four months...

Umm yeah, I can back that

[GreEn`mArine]

well, it could also be 6 matches in four months, or even an different system, that the number of matches played will reduce the required timespan of, lets say, 6 months by some amount (the more matches played the shorter it gets...so basically the system that was proposed at first, to have a PP to be deleted after a fixed amount of time, but to be able to decrease that time by playing matches in the meantime). This would, however, also allow inactive people to get rid of their PPs after some time...

What do youguys think about that?

[ai]

Sounds very good to me.

[Urmel]

you can call me stoopid, I don't understand

but I trust you...

[divVerent]

well, it could also be 6 matches in four months, or even an different system, that the number of matches played will reduce the required timespan of, lets say, 6 months by some amount (the more matches played the shorter it gets...so basically the system that was proposed at first, to have a PP to be deleted after a fixed amount of time, but to be able to decrease that time by playing matches in the meantime). This would, however, also allow inactive people to get rid of their PPs after some time...

Actually, my idea was the opposite - one would have to wait BOTH some time AND actually play to get rid of penalty points.

One COULD use a more complex logic, like, expire penalty points whenever "matches played since last PP was given" * "time passed since last PP was given" exceeds 24 "monthmatches". That way, you'd be rid of one PP if you play 6 matches in four months, if you play 3 matches in eight months, if you play 24 matches in one month, whatever... but if you do not play at all, the PPs won't expire. That would have the nice effect that someone who has a penalty point actually gets motivated to challenge other players so he can get rid of his PPs faster, and each match would count, not just that minimum count.

But I think such a logic would be too complicated - not too complicated to implement, but too complicated to understand by a "mere player".

A compromise may be "expire a penalty point IMMEDIATELY if 6 matches have been played since the point was given, or otherwise in four months, given that one has played at least two matches in that time". That has a similar effect - someone who has a PP is more happy if he can lose his point fast, so he will play his six matches to get rid of the PP and not try to just wait the four months.

The thing is, I know about the "maths" of such models - but not about the psychologic effects of them. But I know for sure that never expiring PPs cause a bad effect on the mood of a player who got one without really being at fault - which CAN happen.

[GreEn`mArine]

Actually, my idea was the opposite - one would have to wait BOTH some time AND actually play to get rid of penalty points.

Yeah, I did get that

One COULD use a more complex logic, like, expire penalty points whenever "matches played since last PP was given" * "time passed since last PP was given" exceeds 24 "monthmatches". That way, you'd be rid of one PP if you play 6 matches in four months, if you play 3 matches in eight months, if you play 24 matches in one month, whatever... but if you do not play at all, the PPs won't expire. That would have the nice effect that someone who has a penalty point actually gets motivated to challenge other players so he can get rid of his PPs faster, and each match would count, not just that minimum count.

Also is a good thing (and indeed not too complicated to implement). But as you said, it might get too complicated to understand for a "mere player" ^^

The systems that were suggested so far are:

• Automatically delete a PP once it is older than x months (6 months for example)
• Delete a PP after X months (e.g. 4 months) OR also delete it (immediately) if 6 matches were finished after the PP
• Introduce something like "monthmatches", which is the product of played matches after last PP * 'time passed since last PP (in months). To delete a PP the player needs to gain a fixed amount of monthsmatches (e.g. 24). This can be achieved by playing at least one game (because otherwise the equation will always be 0), and e.g. get the PP deleted by playing 1 match * in 24 months or by playing 24 matches * in 1 month or in any other mathematically possible way to get a number >= 24 !
• both of these conditions must be fulfulled in order to delete the PP: some months have to pass (e.g. 4 months) AND the player must have played a defined number of matches (not neccesarily within these 4 months, but before that number of matches wasn't played, the PP won't expire either)

Any more reasonable suggestions? Otherwise I'd suggest to have a poll first that choses the kind of system to use, and after that a poll that goes into details about the defined values for the variables.

[divVerent]

I did some empiric tests using these four models in a Python script using Gnuplot - and found that they are more or less equivalent, but the parameters need to be chosen differently.

The only difference is how they motivate the players or not.