Minstagib ladder

[Urmel]

Ah and could someone explain to me why just the nexuiz-release included maps are run on ladder servers? i mean its not realy like you can acctualy do somethign abt a client using a homebrew .bsp with the same filename anyways. Just curiose.

Cause the ladder rules limits the maps of choice to a subset of the ones included with nexuiz. Those maps believed to be as balanced as possible.

Well it should be possible to vote extra maps as well at least dont you think so? From experiens there are many bad maps turning out great for minstagib while completely sukking on DM 1on1 (like dismal or nexdm01 whatwazzaname? for example).

According to the ladder rules: actually there are no minstagib ladder ruleas at all yet, to get sum we will certainly have continue our discussion. Ponting out that I'm no friend of jus taking over the DM ladder rules for this one.

[tZork]

Ah and could someone explain to me why just the nexuiz-release included maps are run on ladder servers? i mean its not realy like you can acctualy do somethign abt a client using a homebrew .bsp with the same filename anyways. Just curiose.

Cause the ladder rules limits the maps of choice to a subset of the ones included with nexuiz. Those maps believed to be as balanced as possible.

How stupid (sorry if i squiched some toes there). If both players agree on a map its their problem if it favors one of them somehow. And.. how the hell can a non team based map be balanced?

Well, if the mista ladder gets some sensable rules and a decent score system (imo elo is ill suited for a fps lallder) i may consider acctualy playing it.

Another insteresting ladder would be a "freeform" ladder where players are authenticated and tracked over time using any gamemode and server. This would require some new authentication infrastructure and a central scorekeeper server tho.

[tChr]

tZork: I dont disagree with most you say.. talk to green tiirc the main problem is the methods that are used for challenging. Not always two players agree on beforehand about wich maps to play. I have numerous times suggested solutions to allow any map as long as both players agree.

[tZork]

Well just cuz green does run a ladder one way dosent not stop someone else running another ladder with diffrent rules. Frankly i think the competition would be good since it would force all ladders to be good or better then the alternatives, making them evolve faster.

[Urmel]

tZork, tChr, how come you think that ladder is personalized and ruled by GreEn`mArine?

Sure, GreEn "invented" the 1on1/2on2 DM ladder with its ELO system and the whole administration. This doesnt mean GreEn is the ruler of all nexuiz ladders (and I think he as well doesnt consider himself to be).

So especially tZork, you got good ideas and you got the ability and you are free to give the minstagib ladder its body and its soul as well. So all you need is some time to set it up.

edit: d'oh, too late

[tZork]

Well urmel, i been thinking abt this for some time, even since before the current ladder came into exsistance. The type of ladder i whanna implement will use ingame authentication so that the things i mentioned above, and more, is possible. This is however far from a trivial thing to implement and i just havent had the time for it.

[Urmel]

I know i know tZork. Sum stuff takes so much time, even if you got the skillz to do so. We all have to waste most of our time in working for the money we need to live

One thing I'm quite sure about is: a minstagib ladder would be half dead as the current ones

[GreEn`mArine]

One thing I'm quite sure about is: a minstagib ladder would be half dead as the current ones

huh ? you prolly wanted to say "a minstagib ladder wouldn't be half dead as the current ones" ?

anyway. The thing tZork is talking about is a completely different thing which wouldn't have anything todo with the current "Nexuiz ladder" ... but much more with the a global raknking system. The DCC-Server-page has such a thing for all DCC Servers.

I was never eager to create a (M)Instagib ladder, especially since I would have to decide about its rules which, imo, I'm not able to do "right". The initial goal of this thread was to allow Urmel to discuss (and to finaly get results from the discussion) new ladder rules for the minstagib-ladder, so that they fit to a 1on1 Instagib Ladder properly. However, since this thread started, I cannot see a clear conclusion about the settings (e.g. for the time/fraglimit, the weapon reload time, the weapon dmg (instant kill or with kill with >1 shots), whether to take Minstagib or usual Instagib, etc.). So I am still waiting.

And obviously tZork still is not pleased with the fact that I didn't include the possibility to allow the players to choose any, when both players agree on it. I decided not to include it because we didn't get a final solution HOW to do it, and even if we would .. well ... the code is actually a "mess", and it would mean quite a lot of work to extend it I guess.

[Urmel]

btw

There is a kwite abandoned irc channel nexuiz.minstagib on quakenet where everybody is invited to come along and discuss about the minsta ladder as we're all aware that GreEn can't do it all all the time

[tZork]

One thing I'm quite sure about is: a minstagib ladder would be half dead as the current ones

huh ? you prolly wanted to say "a minstagib ladder wouldn't be half dead as the current ones" ?

anyway. The thing tZork is talking about is a completely different thing which wouldn't have anything todo with the current "Nexuiz ladder" ... but much more with the a global raknking system. The DCC-Server-page has such a thing for all DCC Servers.

Well not realy. The DCC servers are running a unauthenticated stats system, very nicely done but it not at al the type of system i been thinking abt. A very basic, and important, cornerstone in my idea is the ability of the client to prove its identity to the server, ie registerd players. There could be diffrent subsystems to collect rankings for diffrent gametypes, teams etc. Afaik theres no sutch system built into nexuiz/darkpaces so it would have to be done from the ground up. Not mentioning the hastle with server/database magagment and getting teh results fairly secure. Once sutch a system is built a 1on1 ladder, 3v7 minsta runematch-ctf or whatever is an easy extention.

I was never eager to create a (M)Instagib ladder, especially since I would have to decide about its rules which, imo, I'm not able to do "right". The initial goal of this thread was to allow Urmel to discuss (and to finaly get results from the discussion) new ladder rules for the minstagib-ladder, so that they fit to a 1on1 Instagib Ladder properly. However, since this thread started, I cannot see a clear conclusion about the settings (e.g. for the time/fraglimit, the weapon reload time, the weapon dmg (instant kill or with kill with >1 shots), whether to take Minstagib or usual Instagib, etc.). So I am still waiting.

And obviously tZork still is not pleased with the fact that I didn't include the possibility to allow the players to choose any, when both players agree on it. I decided not to include it because we didn't get a final solution HOW to do it, and even if we would .. well ... the code is actually a "mess", and it would mean quite a lot of work to extend it I guess.

Well i never realy cared for this type of ladder, so i dont have to mutch feelings or insights abt it. What im saying is that i find this odd, but if the code is a mess it could be trixy to extend. just remeber bugs like to make messy places their home

Sometime after new yeras i may have enougth free time to start implementning my ideas for a "registerd players system", but as usual theres no guarantees.