[POLL] CTF Respawn delay

[divVerent]

Shamelessly quoting...

Not really sure where is the best place to ask about this.If anybody has server admin access to the RBI CTF server, is it possible to get the "respawn delay" countdown thing turned off (or at least considered). My reasons for asking are:

1. It is hard to see why the delay is there.

2. Nexuiz is normally quite a fast-paced game, but hanging around looking at blank(ish) screen for 5 seconds kills the pace of the game very badly. As a player that has rubbish aim, I tend to attack mostly, and get fragged a lot as a result. Keeping the right rhythm for attacks is extremely hard with this delay, and spending a couple of minutes every game listening to "5..4..3..2..1.." is enough to drive anyone nuts!

3. When the teams are slightly imbalanced it throws the balance even further off - the stronger players on the weaker team have to work harder than normal, and thus get fragged more often, and then they have to wait, leaving the weaker team BADLY weakened.

4. I feel like a right idiot frantically pressing my respawn key while the other team waltzes to an easy cap!

My understanding was that this feature was temporarily being tested, and that
once 2.2.3 was out, the server would return to normal, no-delay settings.

Well, that feature was suggested by Morphed. The "pro" points are:

• spawn camping gets much less effective: freshly spawning players come in waves and not all at once; thus a spawn camper has a hard time taking them out one by one. Chances are higher that someone on Face can enter his own base or be on an attacking route while the spawn camper is occupied with the others who spawned at the same time.
• capturing gets actually possible without killing the very same defender TWO or even THREE times. If you're dead, you're dead. Currently it does not make any sense to even shoot at your enemies - you run into the base, grab the flag, and get out as quickly as possible. Anything else is wasted ammo and health, as defenders you killed will be in your way a second time anyway. A higher respawn delay fixes this. Especially affected map: ctf_hydronexb3.

Please use the attached poll for some simple options, or discuss the topic here. Morphed, you too!

Another option could be deciding for a default and letting mappers decide if the values are to be changed on their map. Future Nexuiz releases will have a cvar g_respawn_mapsettings; if set, mapcfgs that set g_respawn_mapsettings_delay or g_respawn_mapsettings_waves will be honored. To otherwise change the values, look at the g_respawn settings in default.cfg; they can be set game mode dependent.

Now, which route should future Nexuiz development go?

[:)]

I agree with Vendor's 4th point. A 4-second lead for a flag capturer on less open maps like vitamea and mIKEctf2 is a guaranteed cap.

But on more open maps like Facing Worlds and hydronex, a small delay would be nice.

I don't think spawncamping is a big problem.

The main problem with the spawn delay (and the nex gun delay) was that it felt like a lack of response from the controls, since there was no visual feedback.

[tZork]

Another possible option for ctf games, to solve the "limitless defenders" problem could be to have the spawnpoint select code check where the plyer died, and if this was close to hes own flag, give a high chanse for him to spawn far away from it.

The spawn delay works fairly well for making base assults (insted of grab and run) worth while and does help with spawncamping, but it also slows the game down. Its also somehow mutch more fustrating to spawn after X secs as oposed to spawning far away. I guess this could just be something ya need to get used to, currently my biggest objection to the wave spawning is the way it "feels".

I also think many of the spawncaming and defense issues could be largely resolved with better placement of spawnpoints. hmm speaking of spawnpoints perhaps we could introduce a rating system for thise, so the spawnselect code can operate a bit smarter.

[Vendor]

Has made no noticeable difference that I could see for spawn camping. On UT Face servers I've adminned, I usually put a 1.5s respawn protection mod that gives 100% self-damge to spawn killers, protection fades after 1.5s, or weapon change or firing. Stops spawncamping without side effects - not that spawn camping is actually a major issue anyway, as they weaken their own team more than they hurt their victims.

On the second point, fragging defenders is a distraction anyway regardless of this delay - it's easiest just to go around them or laser them to one side - fragging them just makes them come back with the shotgun, which is incredibly powerful for a default weapon. Mind you that's probably 'cos I am rubbish at fragging them anyway! If I am up against a hard defender like esteel, I know I'm not going to be able to frag him, so I would go in fast and try and lose him on the way out. Sometimes it even works!

[C.Brutail]

About the infinite defenders: it's totally the mapper's responsibility, not to place all the freshly spawned defenders near the flag. Plus I've stated once, that a freshly spawned player has a too powerful weapon in it's hand (2-3 shotgunners can easily rip anybody to pieces). Totally offtopic here btw.

I totally agree with all the 4 points in the starter quote.
Spawncamping: OMG WTF? Please all wake up, it's only one map, FW for nexuiz! Plus, there are 3 nexguns for each tema on that map! And there are at least 6 spawn points that are in shelter!

For my own opinion: this is one feature, I'd definetaly HATE play with in nexuiz ctf (or any other). Chances, I might quit playing ctf is this will be the default, and no servers will be with "old" settings.

[Vendor]

Most players seem to have opted for either the 2s "regular" setting or the half-second "original spec" setting. Playing with the "waves" setting today really spoiled the fun, and it would be good to see the shorter times on the RBI server.

(OT: Brutail - re the shotgun, I can't really imagine that it will remain as the spawn weapon for ctf maps for long, so no real point worrying about it! The game is developing pretty rapidly, and the ctf gameplay continues to improve all the time.)

[Psychcf]

I say make it have no delay but have it in waves of 10 so that you would atleast respawn with some people, that would make a squad, and squads allow more strategic playing.

[esteel]

I say make it have no delay but have it in waves of 10 so that you would atleast respawn with some people, that would make a squad, and squads allow more strategic playing.

As others said this would make capturing too easy on most maps.. There is no f*cking way you can stop a flag carrier when he has a head start of 5-10 seconds.. Its already sometimes hard with the 2 second respawn delay. But also depends on the skill of the players of course.