CTF

[divVerent]

EDIT:

As the actual VALUES of the actions are open, I'll post a list of the actions rewarded for each poll option.



Frags And Points - Full Flag Carrier Speed (like 2.42)

First of all, no speed reduction.

Secondly, the following actions count:
- Killing enemy: +1
- Killing team mate, or yourself: -1
- (POSSIBLY) Taking flag: to be decided (currently +1)
- (POSSIBLY) Taking flag from floor (currently +1, may be variable depending on time)
- Capturing flag: to be decided (currently +20)
- (POSSIBLY) Killing flag carrier (currently +1)
- (POSSIBLY) Dropping flag: to be decided (may depend on death type)
- (POSSIBLY) Dropping flag and it gets returned: to be decided
- Returning flag: to be decided (currently +5, may depend on whether you had shot the FC or not)

The usual captures / points ratio should be in the current range of 30, to make fraglimit behave the same as before a change.



Just Points, No Frags - Full Flag Carrier Speed (i.e. only actions happening around the flag count, like caps, returns, carrier kills)

First of all, no speed reduction.

Secondly, the following actions count:
- (POSSIBLY) Taking flag: to be decided (currently +1)
- (POSSIBLY) Taking flag from floor (currently +1, may be variable depending on time)
- Capturing flag: to be decided (currently +20)
- (POSSIBLY) Killing flag carrier (currently +1)
- (POSSIBLY) Dropping flag: to be decided (may depend on death type)
- (POSSIBLY) Dropping flag and it gets returned: to be decided
- Returning flag: to be decided (currently +5, may depend on whether you had shot the FC or not)



Captures Only - Reduced Flag Carrier Speed

First of all, flag carrier speed is reduced by SOME means (not decided yet).

Secondly, the following actions count:
- Capturing flag: +1
- NOTHING ELSE. No returns, no frags, no nothing.








Reduced flag carrier speed means flag carriers can only use 70% of the normal force from self damage, e.g. laser or rocket jumping. Walking/jumping speed stays the same, as that would change gameplay too much for him. The use of this is to make single capture runs less likely to succeed, and to enforce a bit of teamplay instead. Mainly meant to make captures-only scoring viable without giving persistent but suicidal kamikaze capture runners too much of an advantage (2.4.2's scoring system accounts for this by awarding points for returning flags, so an unsuccessful run harms your team - which can not be the case with captures-only scoring).

Please state your opinion.

Adding further events like points for defending a flag carrier or the base are out of scope, that would need changes to all existing maps (to set a range of protection, and a brush to define where the base is).

Post your arguments and fight below. Vote above.




LIST OF MISCLICKS:
+1 for Captures Only - Reduced Flag Carrier Speed ONLY
-1 for Just Points, No Frags - Full Flag Carrier Speed OR Captures Only - Reduced Flag Carrier Speed

[Wilu]

Adding further events like points for defending a flag carrier or the base are out of scope, that would need changes to all existing maps (to set a range of protection, and a brush to define where the base is).

And what about points for killing FC and picking dropped flag?

[divVerent]

These are already there and work the same way independent from location.

[GreEn`mArine]

I support the idea of the slowed down flag carriers.
I do also think that captures should count, since this is a very common system used for the CTF game mode in many other FPSs such as UT or Quake. I know this doesn't mean Nexuiz should have to copy it, but it makes sense for me.

Thus I voted for "Reduced flag carrier speed, captures only count".

[Mirio]

I support the idea of the slowed down flag carriers.

did you already play with it?

[Alien]

What about setting max speed limit for a fc? So that rocket boosting wouldn't help to achieve supersonic speeds. If it's not an option, I'll vote later after reading other people opinions cause I neither like slow fc and spamming/camping defenders nor selfish solo plays.

[[-z-]]

I think that Flags should count but points should be shown. In the event of a tie, it should be broken by points.

I'd like the following attributes in the scoreboard:

flags caps, flag drops, flag carrier kills, flag returns, kills, deaths

I don't mind the slower flag carrier but I think it's a stupid way to force teamwork. The problem lies within the mentality of the players. I don't believe there is enough incentive for defense, especially when you only show flag caps and points.

For public servers, I simply find this frustrating. Not everyone is a flag carrier and this scoring system makes them believe they have to be. Look at professional sports. Not everyone is a forward but they are rewarded based on the position they play. I believe good team work in Nexuiz is built off the 3 field positions of defense, midfield and offense combined with communication.


Again, I think Nexuiz should have three config "flavors" with settings tweaked for beginners, intermediate players and pros. Trying to make everyone happy with the same default settings makes it harder for new players and less interesting for hardcore ones.

What about setting max speed limit for a fc? So that rocket boosting wouldn't help to achieve supersonic speeds.

Example right here, I should be punished for thinking fast enough to rocket a wall to evade an enemy? I think that's bullshit. My whole attraction to this game was based on the ability to continually surpass my understanding of the physics. People should not be punished for their understand and challenge the physics of the game, this discourages creativity.

"This game is too hard, make it easier for me."

It's only hard because it's easy. Linking all these things together is based on a player's ability to see the bigger picture. Rather than focusing on hand to hand combat, set item based goals for yourself. I think green put it best when he said, "Don't fight every battle".

[Alien]

You got me wrong AGAIN! We are talking about fc ONLY. You can still use your physics knowledge whenever you want, but you can't go at insane speed when FLAG CARRYING. Maybe players should just simply drop the flag if their speed goes over max allowed (similarly to using portal in UT).

What you've wrote above is currently implemented (scoreboard thing) and WILL stay (does not matter which scoring system), except the tie thing, which might be another option to choose from.

[[-z-]]

You got me wrong AGAIN! We are talking about fc ONLY.

What better time to evade the enemy then when carrying their flag?

I don't think it's fair an invisible force stop the flag carrier from exceeding a certain speed just to make him easier to catch. We need to focus more on defense, midfield and communication.

If everyone's constantly running forward, it's no wonder we have these problems.

These new scoring systems are treating a symptom, not the disease.

[inficio]

for scoring, i don't think we should only score captures. i think defense and turtling should be a valid strategy. i don't like it personally, but i don't think teams should be discouraged from it just by our mechanism of keeping score.

as for the flag carrier force reduction, i personally dislike it. i think it fails as a catalyst for teamwork. it notably really hurts flow on some maps. also, if i spend 99% of my time not carrying flag, i'm used to those mechanics. the clunkiness of being slowed during the most important yet more infrequent part of the game is frustrating.

additionally, a slowed fc is really a sitting duck. any good retriever will be much more likely to eliminate a 30% slower opponent even if of equal skill. skilled players will cut through less skilled fcs like butter. this can't be offset with constant escorts; it's too easy and quick to come in and take out an fc if you know where your target is no matter how many people cover them. also, there often isn't enough people around to have a fc escort constantly available. i also don't want someone covering me constantly if i have flag; the risk of explosive detonation or them blocking my path, taking my pickups, etc, decreases the efficacy of the increased firepower they give to the point where they'd be more useful accomplishing another objective..