CTF

[Morphed]

I've voted for Frags And Points - Full Flag Carrier Speed (like 2.42) ONLY because I've been playing lately under this mode in Urban Terror CTF, different public servers, and perceived most players tend to play like a team and not just individuals, ie: enforcing defense, middle-field or attacking as needed, and issuing more team communication than I'm used to see in public Nexuiz servers.

In this mode only flag captures is what matters, no returns/kills/etc, so here is no point on beign selfish, if you see your team losing you feel that you are losing too and this encourages to fill any void your team is having.

are you completely stupid or you just hate this game and want to destroy it ?

I don't like any solution involving slowing down the flag carriers and/or wave respawns, because this is just against the Nexuiz vision: A fast paced game.

another brilliant one ( urban terror have wave respawns )

[divVerent]

Well ... too bad that I definitely have no time for reading the entire thread, I'll just post my thoughts about this:

I've voted for Frags And Points - Full Flag Carrier Speed (like 2.42) ONLY because I've been playing lately under this mode in Urban Terror CTF, different public servers, and perceived most players tend to play like a team and not just individuals, ie: enforcing defense, middle-field or attacking as needed, and issuing more team communication than I'm used to see in public Nexuiz servers.

You do know Urban Terror is much slower, and there is therefore much more TIME for elaborate team communication?

I encourage to keep looking in the less obvious places, for example if the new team radar is enabled by default, it would be easy for any player to understand that there is no one on their base, this is a quick and visual suggestion for switching to defense at least for some minutes. Also having at hand CTF communication binds by default should be helpful.

Cheers

This is both already done.

Now, counting the votes.

We have 36 votes.
"Frags And Points - Full Flag Carrier Speed (like 2.42)" got 7+3+7+2 = 19 votes in favor, and consequently 17 votes against.
"Just Points, No Frags - Full Flag Carrier Speed" got 5+7+7+2-1 = 20 votes in favor, and consequently 16 votes against.
"Captures Only - Reduced Flag Carrier Speed" got 4+7+3+2 = 16 votes in favor, and 20 votes against.

Looks like it will be "Just Points, No Frags - Full Flag Carrier Speed".

However, do we really want that? A new suggestion is there that MAY be working too... that would be "Captures Only - Full Flag Carrier Speed + Harsh Personal Scoring System", basically [-z-]'s suggestion.

[[-z-]]

However, do we really want that? A new suggestion is there that MAY be working too... that would be "Captures Only - Full Flag Carrier Speed + Harsh Personal Scoring System", basically [-z-]'s suggestion.

It's only harsh if you're selfish. Working together as a team or at the very least, heightening your awareness of the field, will provide more personal points all around. The negative pickup serves as a deposit to imply the flag is a liability to the team. Those who keep picking it up and dying will lose points rapidly, they are hurting the team.

[Alien]

It'll probably work except harsh is done in the wrong way (you shouldn't lose points for taking the flag, but for losing the flag while carrying it/or if the flag was returned in the end).

[divVerent]

I still am not convinced that five failed captures and two successful capture means you have harmed your team. In your scoring, you would get zero for that. That I consider just too harsh... however, I have no idea which ratio of capture success and capture failure should be considered "he did nothing for his team". In the previous system.

So basically, your scoring system expects a success rate of at least 28.6% for a flag carrier, or he will lose points.

Note that Nexuiz 2.4.2's system has the same harshness (but it requires just at least 19.2% success rate), except it is hidden by nontransparently giving the enemy points. That system is clearly wrong.

Can we maybe adjust the minimum success rate to stay positive of your system to 20%, as it then matches the 2.4.2 gameplay of intelligent players, and - for scores-only games where it is NOT captures which decide the game - use a system similar to 2.4.2's with the big bug (returner gets points, flag loser does not see what he does is bad) fixed, or maybe ai's proposed system which is much simpler and currently only rewards/punishes the flag carrier and nobody else? Well, or change that system to, instead of giving the one who lost the flag -5 when it returned, just give him -4 and give the returner +1. Incidentally, that system is also tuned for 20% success rate...

[ai]

I vote for mine
Not only to be selfish but why complicate it with all these weird points going here and there. Punish the one who does something wrong, not the ones who does something right.

[Alien]

The main thing is that only caps would count, which is what you want.

[ai]

Returns would count too (in almost the same way is it is currently).

[Alien]

"Captures Only - Full Flag Carrier Speed + Harsh Personal Scoring System" - as I understand returns do not count here.

[divVerent]

The "harsh" system is [-z-]'s, and he awards 5 points for killing the flag carrier, and 3 points for returning the flag.

The flag carrier, in this case, loses 5 points for taking the flag, and another 5 for losing it.

Sure, these scores are not taken into account for deciding who wins (or possibly just as tie breaker). But [-z-] will perhaps add a feature to kick players with -20, or ban them from playing and turning them into a spectator for 5 minutes. Now that I actually HAVE gotten negative score and not done anything wrong, I really am against such a thing. The situation was totally uneven teams, it was impossible to protect the own flag, as we were outclassed by the other team. When I did not attack, I get 0 points, and never am able to get the enemy, and the enemy gets 7 caps fast. When I did attack, I could take the flag away from the enemy, preventing him from capturing for some time - but there was nobody in my team able to get the enemy flag carrier faster than the enemy got me. Got me a negative score, of course. And [-z-] solves this problem of totally uneven teams is solved by removing a member from the losing team? Sure not. That's sure a thing he did not think about when coming up with the idea of kicking players with negative score.

ai's system is almost fine with me - but the one who returns the flag should get points for it too. But a simple +1 would be more than enough for it (together with changing the penalty for losing a flag and it getting returned to -4, so the relative difference is 5 again).

The FC killer does not need any extra reward, his frag appears in the "frags" scoreboard column anyway so he can be proud of it.