CTF

[Alien]

I have evidences, but some people seem not to pay attention whatever would be said here. They instead compare such ideas to cars and horses. Main evidence is that mods on such ideas were created long ago and they didn't survive because good players don't like such rules and noobs either leave, either become good or either get kickbanned.

Saying that Nexuiz differs too much that traditional and tested CTF practice couldn't be applied is probably much more "evident".

By this logic, portal was a bad idea too.

What does the hell portal have to do? (Teleporter was in UT for your knowledge). Do you argue for the sake to argue? It seems so, so I see no point in discussing again.

[[-z-]]

What does the hell portal have to do? (Teleporter was in UT for your knowledge). Do you argue for the sake to argue? It seems so, so I see no point in discussing again.

Portal the game. It was never a quake 1 mod but lo and behold, it's popular as hell. It's a twist on an old concept. It's an "enhanced" idea of the portal.

[Alien]

Portal is not CTF game and it is singleplayer, or maybe you'll inverse word meaning now again and will talk about portal gun. Of course, it is evident that you are right in both cases, without regards to actual portal meaning. Cause this is evident and anyone can decide this from the poll, cause success rates directly relates to portal (game) and then we can say that people voted for bubble idea month ago before it was mentioned, cause this is also evident.

All other arguments are fallacious (quoting TVR) and z's scoring system and his point of view is the only one possible, available. Beware to argue with evidences.

Going to chill out... peace

[ai]

The big difference here, is that the speed reduction was a global change that would punish ANYONE. The speed reduction also changes the physics of the game.

It didn't affect anyone, it only affected the flag carrier. Now I can probably see your response to this so I'll say this too just in case. Yes, anyone can capture the flag, but newbies probably wouldn't be able to that much. That same way, yes anyone could get a bad cap rate too (happens to me too). I do see good cappers just run for the flag die and repeat the process. Newbies, again, wouldn't be able to even get to the flag with a decent defense.

What does the hell portal have to do? (Teleporter was in UT for your knowledge). Do you argue for the sake to argue? It seems so, so I see no point in discussing again.

Portal the game. It was never a quake 1 mod but lo and behold, it's popular as hell. It's a twist on an old concept. It's an "enhanced" idea of the portal.

I don't see how this argument has anything to do with the bubble idea This is an argument for the sake of arguing as I see it. Portal (the game) doesn't have CTF as far as I know (played it 10 times and I yet have to find that flag ), maybe a mod out there has it.

[[-z-]]

I was comparing your idea of only mods that survived are good. You seem to be against any new idea if they aren't tried and true. Portal was my example of a mod that didn't fit this criteria but was still successful. Sorry I didn't clarify I meant the game, I didn't mean to confuse you, please don't accuse me of flip-flopping.

These changes are intended to improve team play, something the community has clearly identified as a problem. We are trying out new ideas and seeing what's working... but you're trying to shoot them down without reasoning beyond "it hasn't been done before, so it can't be good". I'm asking for more supporting evidence and yes, evidence is the right word. Statistics that prove the success of a system are considered a form of evidence.

My point of view is not the only one possible, in fact, you'll see in this very thread, this very point we're arguing is one I've adopted from divVerent.

You still don't seem to understand the connection between the bubble and capture rates and I'm not really sure how to convince you otherwise... the bubble would be created because someone fails to achieve a specific capture rate.

Maybe you'll come back and edit your post after you calm down, it seems like you're getting a little worked up.

[[-z-]]

The big difference here, is that the speed reduction was a global change that would punish ANYONE. The speed reduction also changes the physics of the game.

It didn't affect anyone, it only affected the flag carrier. Now I can probably see your response to this so I'll say this too just in case. Yes, anyone can capture the flag, but newbies probably wouldn't be able to that much. That same way, yes anyone could get a bad cap rate too (happens to me too). I do see good cappers just run for the flag die and repeat the process.

Everyone that grabs the flag.... not everyone in the game. Whereas (still in the realm of flag carriers), only those who fail x amount of times consecutively will see the bubble.


By the way... "good flag carriers that just run for the flag and die" aren't good flag carriers. Good flag carriers bring the flag back to their base successfully.

[ai]

I'm asking for more supporting evidence and yes, evidence is the right word. Statistics that prove the success of a system are considered a form of evidence.

Well, if you're asking for evidence you yourself would have to bring some too. As far as I know you don't have evidence that this bubble idea will actually work. You have a statement, argument or idea (if you want), but that is not evidence. Hence why I thought the word 'evidence' was wrong in the first place.

By the way... "good flag carriers that just run for the flag and die" aren't good flag carriers. Good flag carriers bring the flag back to their base successfully.

My bad, I should probably elaborate on this. What I consider are good flag carriers are people who cap all the time. However, when there's good defense they won't be able to cap. I was mainly thinking about jlue, Misio, OC (back in those days) and a couple of more. Now I know they are very good flag carriers, but if there's a good defense they won't succeed as much. I consider myself as a good defender, when I defend they do have a hard time to cap but it's not impossible for them (hence their success rate will decline).
This is what I consider good flag carriers, people who can gain speed like crazy when capping, but sometimes they are not able to because of a good defense.

[[-z-]]

What I consider are good flag carriers are people who cap all the time. However, when there's good defense they won't be able to cap. I was mainly thinking about jlue, Misio, OC (back in those days) and a couple of more. Now I know they are very good flag carriers, but if there's a good defense they won't succeed as much. I consider myself as a good defender, when I defend they do have a hard time to cap but it's not impossible for them (hence their success rate will decline).
This is what I consider good flag carriers, people who can gain speed like crazy when capping, but sometimes they are not able to because of a good defense.

Well.. sometimes this is not always the best way to grab / capture a flag... and when this strategy isn't working, perhaps it's time to let someone else give it a go... if someone fails x times in a row... they need to reform their strategy.

And... this promotes teamwork. It emphasizes the importance of successful captures and discourages kamikazes.

[ai]

In fact it doesn't discourage kamikaze. I have have never seen anyone stop attacking just because they failed. They just keep coming, and then when a protective barrier shows up from time to time they will hate it and complain, that's what I believe.

[divVerent]

I am not convinced the bubble is a good idea, however, it's the closest thing I can live with to [-z-]'s original idea of kicking/force-speccing "bad performing" players.

"The bubble" works like this:

"Bad performers" will get a notice on the screen, and a message that tells them to defend for the time being. They will see the enemy flag surrounded by a bubble, and can't take it from the base. They still can take it when dropped, so they still can be useful.

Now who IS a "bad performer"? Everyone below -20 points. It makes sure that at most 40% of a team get that bubble. So in 3vs3, only one player of each team can get shielded off the enemy flag by it. In 4vs4, one player too, in 5vs5 it can be two (or maybe one, not sure if I implemented > or >= there, but it doesn't matter much anyway). In case there are many players below the threshold score, only the worst 40% get the bubble.

It looks like this:



I hope how this works should be cleared up now.