CTF

[inficio]

i just want to emphasize that i'm far from one of the fastest cappers so you can't pigeonhole me in with those who "soley rely on speed." and in my experience the reduction has more of a vertical bias against it, making upward scaling more tricky, horizontally it's effect is mostly marginal. this is the issue with maps like greatwall, dance, etc where you need to go forward as well as up (in most cases) for a clean escape.

i dislike, however, that someone can say "this tactic is bad, we're biasing against it." if "we" bias against defenders through scoring, and bias against runners through reduction, we're fraying margins for what? to allow the opinions of some to come in line with reality at the cost of those of others?

discounting the issue of imbalanced teams on public servers, which so far isn't addressed as far as i can tell, the game works remarkably well. i wonder at what point everyone will say nexuiz is what it is (in terms of balance, gameplay) and there exists no "flaws" inherent to it, only it's unique blend of approaches. striving for perfectibility in matters of taste is just going to, at some end, alienate some group or another.

[ai]

I understood the first sentence, then the rest is gibberish for me. Use more simple English without word-puzzle. "If we bias defenders, and unbias attackers, then the margin will fray in the coherent value of vertical exponent. Not to mention the inherent taste of the horizontally escape of reduction." That's kinda gibberish. :p

Anyway, I didn't say 'only' those who rely on speed, I said 'basically' only those. So far, I've been hearing negative things from those who usually cap. I even had a conversation with one of those people and said that this will encourage team play, but when I said he could try to act like a teammate he actually REFUSED to do it, yet he whined about the reduction. Such people has no say in the matter IMO, as he only want to cap, nothing else. (That's the basic story, there's a little more to it than that but it pretty much sums up that way)

Fast cappers don't encourage teamplay. They work against it. Thinking about Capturecity where one can RL himself over to the other side literally from flag to flag without landing anywhere else. Now of course the map here is also at fault, but it's still possible. I don't think the mapper intended for that to be possible. I think he wanted people to at least land on the ground and run a bit.

[alphagod]

discounting the issue of imbalanced teams on public servers, which so far isn't addressed as far as i can tell, the game works remarkably well. i wonder at what point everyone will say nexuiz is what it is (in terms of balance, gameplay) and there exists no "flaws" inherent to it, only it's unique blend of approaches. striving for perfectibility in matters of taste is just going to, at some end, alienate some group or another.

Which is why I completely support the idea of having two game modes, and leaving the choice to the server admin, one with the normal FC speed, frags count as points and one with cap only points and the 70% reduction. There is no need to "alienate" one group or the other, it depends on what the server admins want to run. Imo the cap only and 70% FC speed is much more true to the idea of actual CTF and is relatively close to what other games offer as CTF, while the Nexuiz approach is more like an original TDM with lots of extras.

Also while some of the vertical jumps you mention are indeed harder to get they are still very much working the difference is that you don't get as much vertical boost but I've yet to meet an un-scalable wall because of the change, as for the Dance map I find the changes make it way more interesting and the quad self boost reduction makes it even better.

[Xeno]

I had a suggestion but forgot to include it in my post:

If you decide to limit the flag carrier's movement, make it possible to pass the flag to a teammate. I believe that would encourage teamwork.

Also, an overall speed limit is just ridiculous imo. The best way to do it (and most logical) is to make the flag carrier effectively heavier (the flag has mass) so that his weapons still work normally, but he simply gets less boost from them.

[[-z-]]

Fast cappers don't encourage teamplay. They work against it.

I couldn't disagree more.

This is assuming teammates need to by up the flag carrier's ass to help out. Which is untrue. A good team will provide cover for the flag carrier.

When someone is holding a flag, it should be considered a liability. The team should work together by any means necessary to provide cover for the flag carrier and hold down their base to prevent the enemy from creating a stalemate situation by stealing your flag.

The faster you can close this window, the better flag carrier you are. Poor teamwork inadvertently causes flag carriers to become faster to close this window even faster when they feel they cannot rely on their team.

[TVR]

Consequences of current scoring GPMs [GamePlay Mechanics]: Quake & UT style CTF maps are inviable, only mojoCTF & cbctf1 are balanced with Nexuiz' CTF GPMs.

Solution: Play more Keyhunt, Herforst CTF, or consider suggestion.

Suggestion: Reduced flag carrier speed, no flag returns - flags remains at drop location for a period of time, frags count [each frag hampers the opposing team], wave respawn.

[[-z-]]

Consequences of current scoring GPMs: Quake & UT style CTF maps are inviable, only mojoCTF & cbctf1 are balanced with Nexuiz' CTF GPMs.

I have no idea was GPM is

Suggestion: Reduced flag carrier speed, no flag returns - flags remains at drop location for a period of time, frags count [each frag hampers the opposing team], wave respawn.

Hell no!

[Alien]

I understood the first sentence, then the rest is gibberish for me. Use more simple English without word-puzzle. "If we bias defenders, and unbias attackers, then the margin will fray in the coherent value of vertical exponent. Not to mention the inherent taste of the horizontally escape of reduction." That's kinda gibberish. :p

Inficio wanted to say that most disagreement comes from not being able to jump high enough. Also that camping-defending strategy is just another viable option, same as speed capping.

Also, an overall speed limit is just ridiculous imo. The best way to do it (and most logical) is to make the flag carrier effectively heavier (the flag has mass) so that his weapons still work normally, but he simply gets less boost from them.

Why is it ridiculous? The whole speed reduce suggestion was made to increase the possibility to stop flag carrier. If you limit max speed, the goal will be reached. With this system in proposal the goal won't be achieved cause people learn will to gain speed before taking the flag (eg. rocketboost before pickup). => So it won't stop experienced cappers from reaching great speed in advance, only make new players unable to cap.

And this poll is not about possible teamplay, etc. This is about the FC speed in which case we can presume the worst case happening (e.g. you have no team or your team is unable to play as a team). If we vote considering that BOTH teams play as REAL teams, it most often won't work in practice on public servers. Be realistic and look at the current state of it. Teaching players is very good, but we shouldn't depend on it.

[divVerent]

Maps where you do not need to take any curves to cap are bad and broken. Don't care.

Maps where you DO have to take curves limit your speed there, so boosting before flag taking won't help much.

[Alien]

Maps where you do not need to take any curves to cap are bad and broken. Don't care.

Maps where you DO have to take curves limit your speed there, so boosting before flag taking won't help much.

Taking this into the account and removing no curves maps from the map pool, reducing fc speed makes less sense then. Btw, question to mappers, is it possible to make open maps with curves? It would be bad if we limit mappers and our visual experience to only confined environments.