CTF

[divVerent]

After all, they would probably be losing the game anyway if they were able to reach -28. Clearly their strategies aren't working out so well.

I agree with the ideas behind the scoring, but THAT statement is plain wrong.

-28 = 25 + (-53)

To this, we agree, right?

-28 = 25 + 5 * (-10) + (-3)

That's:

1 succeeded attempt to capture (pickup capture), 25 each
5 failed capture attempts (pickup drop), 20 each
1 time getting killed by a sniper while holding the flag, respawning, and picking up the flag (drop pickup), -3 each; that capture attempt be one of the 5 failed ones
= -28 points

The enemy has got for the same actions:

5 times prevented someone from capping (kill return), 8 each
1 time killing the flag carrier, but not returning (kill), 5 each
= 45 points

Sure, that capper just has a 1:5 success ratio. That's nothing to be proud of. Still, he DID help his team. So why is he that much negative? He may still be the best capper in his team after all, or the only one who wants to cap (while the others defend). And a 1:0 victory is a victory too, after all.

Well, a simple way to fix this is to shift the bias, so he gets not THAT many negative points.

But the points system is one thing. Taking the points too serious and insulting the players for negative points like you just did is certainly wrong. The points in the scoreboard do give a rough indication, but without the captures column, their raw number is worthless.

[ai]

I'm ok with you developing it privately and use if for your servers, if you have any or if you plan on getting some. But don't try to implement this with the original, official Nexuiz please.

[[-z-]]

Yes but divVerent, we agreed a while ago that my numbers weren't perfect :-\. I'll admit your evidence proves my numbers can be a bit askewed but I disagree with generalizing the fact that negative scoring is bad. I do believe that something less harsh would be beneficial on public servers. However, I think it's important a message is shown to let them know how they are gaining/losing points.

[[-z-]]

I'm ok with you developing it privately and use if for your servers, if you have any or if you plan on getting some. But don't try to implement this with the original, official Nexuiz please.

Are you still ignorant to the fact that I've been running servers with this scoing system for over a month?

[Alien]

So, I might have been running something over the year (eg. Alien's bot server) but this does not mean it's good.

EDIT: And I know that your server is running over a month, but most players play at galt's.

[ai]

Are you still ignorant to the fact that I've been running servers with this scoing system for over a month?

Not ignorant, but my memory sucks. Really, ask morfar he knows If you did say it somewhere I forgot it, if that's the case I apologize.

[divVerent]

Yes but divVerent, we agreed a while ago that my numbers weren't perfect :-\. I'll admit your evidence proves my numbers can be a bit askewed but I disagree with generalizing the fact that negative scoring is bad. I do believe that something less harsh would be beneficial on public servers. However, I think it's important a message is shown to let them know how they are gaining/losing points.

I never said negative scores are generally bad. But any scoring system has weird scenarios where it leads to wrong impressions. Do not generalize "negative score = bad player", as no scoring system can ever be good enough to fulfill that in any scenario.

The goal is to make a system with as few bad scenarios as possible.

[[-z-]]

Well by numbers I meant ratios. I'm all for the negatives as this thread made somewhat painfully clear. I'm open to ideas as you (divVerent) sometimes know. I'm trying to look at this from a scientific/pyschological standpoint but people get too caught up in their emotions, neglect to read my posts in full and reply to me based on their assumptions that fit with their emotions. To me, it's really not worth putting this much effort out publically because of all the negative energy caused by what I've described above.

Even changes you made in the past I was skeptical of (the rocket launcher change) I soon agreed and found you had made the right decision in bringing the balance back into the game. I trust you'll make the right decision here because you, divVerent see more about this game than anyone else I know.

So, good luck with this. I've said my piece if you'd like to theorize with me some more, you know where to find me. I'm done with people calling me disrespectful for copping an attitude when my attitude stems from their disrespect of not reading my posts. We waste time and energy arguing about stupid points a little reading would have solved.

[divVerent]

Basically, I was just saying scores would, in an ideal world, be read by humans, and should not have any gameplay impact. The -91 player can still be a valuable member of the team, but you'd see that in the scores table easily (if he also has, like, 10 captures, then he's just very persistent and does have success).

That persistence won't gain him good scores, and he should instead learn to stack up before taking the enemy flag and running home. Nonetheless he still can be a valuable member of the team, and the scores don't say it. A single score can't indicate everything...

And as for disrespect - you do show disrespect too, by "shitting on" the 1on1 community like you did some days ago by disregarding one of the most basic rules of competitive playing. I don't like these "rules" either (like, not leaving a match, not going easy as that is taken as an insult by the losing player, etc.) - but then I simply don't play competitive games, and it's all good. Please learn to show respect even towards people you disagree with, and better ignore a post than to reply arrogantly to it. Or, maybe it would be better to postpone replying for some hours until you get a clear mind again. If you do that, people will accept if you sometimes act disrespectfully too, be it because of not knowing a rule, or because of getting angry. But currently, your behaviour appears hypocritical, which may also be the cause of ai not really being interested in your scoring system (after all, he has his own), and focusing on its shortcomings.

[[-z-]]

yes... but in the time that his persistance is failing him, a teammate with a better ratio could be capping. Thus it is my belief he is hurting the team.