Nexuiz & CPMA Movement ?

[Bundy]

What nifrek and fruitiex said. I also think we dont need a perfect copy of defrag, as I can play Q3 defrag if i want to, as everyone else. We have Nexuiz CPM physics, which should be unique, too and fit to the game.

[divVerent]

exec physics25.cfg
sv_aircontrol 300
sv_airaccel_sideways_friction 0
sv_airstopaccelerate 2.5

is regular Nexuiz physics + CPMA air control - Nexuiz air control

Be warned: this is insanely fast, much faster than CPMA. So fast you better avoid the accelerator pads on racetrack.

[k0jak]

Cool FruitieX, I will test this tonight.

I've just read the discussion you guys had on irc today (kojn, fruitiex, dib) but you're all gone now. PLEASE, remember the player scale is different, if you're testing defrag maps without rescaling them of course it'll work without changing too much stuff but we should start by using the physics in nexuiz maps first. I see you guys are downloading defrag maps and trying them as is, that makes no sense to me. Especially if the goal is to make our own NexuizCPMA-style physics. I think FruitieX is going in the right direction with his last post.

IMHO maxspeed on ground has to be the same as nexuiz default, not slower, because of the scale of NEXUIZ maps. If that makes other movement/accel too fast then make adjustments to other settings like less acceleration and more aircontrol to make it right. Let's think about Nexuiz regular play before nexrun/race stuff. Try not to think of bunnyhopping only, think of everything else also. If maxspeed on ground is slower than regular physics then it's already broken to me and feels too different. I'm sure with all those new cvars added we can make physics close to CPMA without affecting Nexuiz gameplay too much.

Anyway, that's my opinion. You guys are free to ignore me but personally I'm not going to use those physics ever if they don't fit nexuiz maps and I'd like to help playing with the settings but I'm not going to waste time on it if the goal is just to make them fit defrag maps at q3 scale.

The fact wasn't to base them on defrag maps, if you read up divVerent even says can make a seperate config for example nexuizDEFRAG.cfg in the future for any different changes that would be required if people wanted to try to play maps all was said and finished here.

My discussion was about map editing those maps, and I was trying to explain that the physics didn't need changing the amount that frutiex was to complete the maps, and that he and I are both are not strafing properly, and that it would be wrong to start wanting to ask mappers permission to fix maps without concrete physicsi n place (for nexrun, this was a private discussion).

I thought the point of implementing the physics was to appeal to a wider audience quake players, promode players, warsow players. So I wouldn't go changing them too much, I don't see the problem with the current one's they work fine with the current maxairspeed.

We've had the physics 3 days? and people want to make such big changes, how can you expect to learn a new physics set top to bottom in 3 days? I can't even strafe properly, how long did it take you to master the nexuiz physics? the problem isn't the physics but learning how to do them correctly, If you increase the maxspeed to 400 once people know how to strafe properly, they will be ludicrously too fast, Frutiex already said they are way too fast for regular nexuiz maps with this setting on IRC, to me atleast.

This was what I was trying to explain on IRC because me and frutiex were discussing over the defrag maps and how we were struggling to do them I then explained it should be possible to do them with physicsCPMA but were just not strafing properly as I could get less far in defrag then I could in nexuiz! I don't know why you bought up this here to be honest, because this wasn't to do with this thread.

I've played with the cpma physics and they don't even break maps hardly, they work better then normal physics on the nexuiz maps i've played.

As regards to playerscale, it's mainly the problem of fitting through areas of a map at times, and I don't get:

"but I'm not going to waste time on it if the goal is just to make them fit defrag maps at q3 scale"


This is completely off topic, and you have kind of pissed me off bringing another project into this.

[divVerent]

You may also try out physicsWarsowClassicBunny.cfg

These are equivalent to CPMA, except for slightly higher jump velocity and water acceleration.

[Alien]

Physics and weapons is what defines Nexuiz and makes it exceptional. All other content can be easily thrown in and out. Maps are based on current physics and weapon abilities, therefore executing different physics for same mapset will make a gameplay unpleasant or even break these maps. Same goes for changing physics with later editions. Changing physics is not a bad thing cause new physics might be more entertaining but then maps must be edited as well.

Now, I can imagine that playing CTF on defrag style maps with accordingly changed physics would be fun (probably even better than now), but we must also understand that these changes would probably make current maps unfixable. Then decision must be taken which path Nexuiz should choose (stating goals) and do not change physics in between releases.

Of course, there might be different sets of physics for Nexuiz but with different physics one needs different maps. So this might go as a mod if official switch won't be made.

As I said, posting physics goals (and even whole development milestones) would be nice so ones producing content could be prepared. You can't simply apply jet-engine to capturecity and hope it will work ok.

I hope that div, lordhavoc, morfar, morphed would post how nexuiz should like (theme and gameplay wise) in 3.0 or any other release so people work in order to achieve this and not make a mix and mash of this and that.

[jal]

Keep in mind gravity in Warsow is 850, so even if the jump velocity value is high, it's compensated a bit by it. It is still high, anyway.

I've done a bunch of changes to those settings for the upcoming release. This is latest version of pmove.c if you want to check:

http://pastebin.com/f60c4ad0f

(pm_airdecelerate is probably gonna be raised back a little to fix issues with plasma climbing).

[divVerent]

Well, and CPMA physics also have very many weirdnesses which make them a bad choice for Nexuiz, given that some users use analog input devices (i.e. gamepads).

CPMA physics:

If moving against current velocity, 2.5x acceleration is used from regular air control
If moving only sidewards, strafing speed is extremely nerfed (high acceleration, very low maxspeed). Can be circumvented with a joystick by adding a miniscule amount of forward acceleration too.
If moving only forward/backward, air control is applied.

Assume you're moving forward and a little left. The keyboard map is then:

Code: Select all

NORMAL       AIRCONTROL            NORMAL
NERFED_ACCEL NOTHING               NERFED_ACCEL
MORE_ACCEL   AIRCONTROL+MORE_ACCEL MORE_ACCEL


For Warsow, it is a bit different:

Code: Select all

NORMAL       AIRCONTROL            NORMAL
NERFED_ACCEL NOTHING               NERFED_ACCEL
MORE_ACCEL   MORE_ACCEL            MORE_ACCEL


[nifrek]

The fact wasn't to base them on defrag maps, if you read up divVerent even says can make a seperate config for example nexuizDEFRAG.cfg in the future for any different changes that would be required if people wanted to try to play maps all was said and finished here.

My discussion was about map editing those maps, and I was trying to explain that the physics didn't need changing the amount that frutiex was to complete the maps, and that he and I are both are not strafing properly, and that it would be wrong to start wanting to ask mappers permission to fix maps without concrete physicsi n place (for nexrun, this was a private discussion).

I thought the point of implementing the physics was to appeal to a wider audience quake players, promode players, warsow players. So I wouldn't go changing them too much, I don't see the problem with the current one's they work fine with the current maxairspeed.

We've had the physics 3 days? and people want to make such big changes, how can you expect to learn a new physics set top to bottom in 3 days? I can't even strafe properly, how long did it take you to master the nexuiz physics? the problem isn't the physics but learning how to do them correctly, If you increase the maxspeed to 400 once people know how to strafe properly, they will be ludicrously too fast, Frutiex already said they are way too fast for regular nexuiz maps with this setting on IRC, to me atleast.

This was what I was trying to explain on IRC because me and frutiex were discussing over the defrag maps and how we were struggling to do them I then explained it should be possible to do them with physicsCPMA but were just not strafing properly as I could get less far in defrag then I could in nexuiz! I don't know why you bought up this here to be honest, because this wasn't to do with this thread.

I've played with the cpma physics and they don't even break maps hardly, they work better then normal physics on the nexuiz maps i've played.

As regards to playerscale, it's mainly the problem of fitting through areas of a map at times, and I don't get:

"but I'm not going to waste time on it if the goal is just to make them fit defrag maps at q3 scale"


This is completely off topic, and you have kind of pissed me off bringing another project into this.

I guess we both want the same thing and misunderstood each other (not the first time), or you didn't understand my post. I didn't say to just change maxspeed to 400, read again. And I was not offtopic, isn't this thread about CPMA physics, then turned into making a NexuizCPMA-style physics set so that it would fit nexuiz better? That was the subject of my post, I don't see any reason to be pissed off, I'm not sure what you mean by other project.

If you mean that just you want to make a different physics set to play defrag maps as is not related to this, then my bad, I simply saw your discussion as about making CPMA physics fit nexuiz, I didn't realize that was different. I reread the logs and there's no mention of having 2 different projects.

In any case, I'm not talking about how fast you can go by bunnyhopping. I still think being slower on foot with that physics set than with 2.5 physics is wrong. Acceleration on ground is faster so it does compensate a bit, but still...

But fine, if you're pissed off then I'll just wait and see what you guys come up with because looks like I don't understand what you're trying to do.

[divVerent]

Keep in mind gravity in Warsow is 850, so even if the jump velocity value is high, it's compensated a bit by it. It is still high, anyway.

I've done a bunch of changes to those settings for the upcoming release. This is latest version of pmove.c if you want to check:

http://pastebin.com/f60c4ad0f

(pm_airdecelerate is probably gonna be raised back a little to fix issues with plasma climbing).

The code is mostly identical... except for renamed and changed values, and handling of dash/walljump.

Note that it has a funny bug: in non-classic bunny mode, PM_Aircontrol never does anything, as it's only called if smove is not 0, but if smove is not 0, it immediately returns. You may want to remove that call

[divVerent]

I hope that div, lordhavoc, morfar, morphed would post how nexuiz should like (theme and gameplay wise) in 3.0 or any other release so people work in order to achieve this and not make a mix and mash of this and that.

Well, I want it to stay as is, as physics are good as they are.

Lordhavoc wants it to become awfully slow (comparable to Q3A, but without QW-style bunnyhopping acceleration), as in his opinion, overly fast players are the reason of lack of teamplay.

CPMA physics will certainly never become default.