Armor/MH Balance

[alpha]

I dont get it why do you want to solve unbalanced weapons with powerups changes. Ok, so mega maybe does not grant another "nex life", but 100 IMO is a good, round number and it makes perfect sense, like it should. The problem isn't there, the problem is in weapons.

The reason why nexuiz cant just copy some other established weapon balancing is because nexuiz can be sometimes really fast, and some weapons must be available for stopping a speeding >1000ips flag carrier. But I also DONT THINK that this 'problem' can be solved with uber-high damaging hitscan camper weapon. There must be other ways. Crylink slowing is a good example.


And yeah, lets test shotgun too.

[k0jak]

I dont get it why do you want to solve unbalanced weapons with powerups changes. Ok, so mega maybe does not grant another "nex life", but 100 IMO is a good, round number and it makes perfect sense, like it should. The problem isn't there, the problem is in weapons.

The reason why nexuiz cant just copy some other established weapon balancing is because nexuiz can really fast, and some weapons must be available for stopping a speeding flag carrier. But I also DONT THINK that this 'problem' can be solved with uber-high damaging hitscan camper weapon. There must be other ways. Crylink slowing is a good example.


And yeah, lets test shotgun too.

I think bundy wants to change the powerups so we don't have to change the weapons balance alpha.

[alpha]

I think bundy wants to change the powerups so we don't have to change the weapons balance alpha.

I have seen people leave servers because of nexrain by people like tzork, franco and unknown[nf]. And I very much doubt that greater powerups would somehow make 130dmg nex less annoying.

[k0jak]

tZork has a nex aim?

[tZork]

tZork has a nex aim?

EDIT: ~40-50% hit rate (brain was short-circuited when i wrote that #'s ) on a good day. so not that great, no.

I have seen people leave servers because of nexrain by people like tzork, franco and unknown[nf]. And I very much doubt that greater powerups would somehow make 130dmg nex less annoying.

Some ppl prefer playing against a team that don't put up a fight and leave as soon is it gets a bit hard. what else is new? xD

And.. if the mh gave you 500 hp and 500 ar 130 dmg would still be magically to much? funny logic you have there.

I think different armour blockrate would go a good bit towards adding some more tactical importance to this pickup. perhaps pausing downrot longer for large pickups too.

i also think you should not be able to pick up smaller hp/ar beyond some point. say 200+ stops you from grabbing the small ones. 300+ stops medium. that would mean you would have to deny your enemy the pickup in pvp/tdm by fighting over it rather then just swooping around and gobbeling everything up.

[Alien]

I think the best balance would be to make the shotgun just as powerful in its own right as the other weapons, but also have it consume ammo at a comparable rate and only spawn with one pickup's worth of ammo for it. Then your extra incentive to find a new weapon is because you only have so few shots with your starting loadout (unless you're good with the laser).

Yes i was just thinking about this now actually before i read your post

This is the best idea, reduce the starting ammo to something not very high, like you say so the incentive is to go get other weapons, good call

PEOPLE LISTEN TO THEM FINALLY! Make shotgun separate weapon leaving laser solo weapon and implement 3secs spawn protection (yes, this was discussed before 2 or more times already). Shotgun should be as UT flack cannon - best weapon in close range - way better than shock rifle.

Crylink is the worst example possible. If we make all weapons spam, block view and reduce speed, we would rather stick with 2.3 and useless crylink instead.

[Bundy]

I think bundy wants to change the powerups so we don't have to change the weapons balance alpha.

No, this has nothing to do with weapon balance. I will one day create a thread about this. But why dont fix something small first, if it is needed, before starting such a huge topic.

And I very much doubt that greater powerups would somehow make 130dmg nex less annoying.

Correct.

It doesnt make the nexgun weaker against any other weapon in general, but it makes the nexgun and of course any other weapon weaker against powerups. You will notice that you are more often able to get next to the nexgun guy, which makes his live harder. You have at least 1,5 seconds more time to kill the nexguy when you got the powerup (thats the nexgun refire time). Of course, in the game the nexgun will still be the most usable weapon. If the nexgun guy got the powerup, he will be tougher to kill, too. Powerups in general will be on the right level to deal with the higher average damage output of the nexuiz weapons. Tweaking the armor and megahealth to much wouldnt be good either, as this could lead to games without any frags. That is the reason I opened this thread and want to see as many oppinions as possible.

There would be another way to accomplish the same goal. It would be possible to reduce the nexgun damage to ~77% (damage 100) and reduce of course every other weapon to 77%, too. This doesnt change anything for the weapons itself. In this scenario the nexgun is still the most powerful weapon, but this would balance the current megahealth and armor also against the weapons. But I am sure that this would be the worst option, because we need enough damage output to deal with the fact that you can get above 100 health with normal 25er healthpacks.

You are not able to take small healthpacks in other games. Because of that, the magical damagenumber of 100 works that great for them, but not in nexuiz.

There is also a small imbalance in the powerups itself. Because of the small healthpackages, the armor is more useful then the megahealth.

But why don't you make a server and try it out?

I will test it, but I am not in hurry with that. We got some interesting ideas here and I am looking forward to get some more oppinions and ideas

[k0jak]

Someone, somewhere, IRC i think? mentioned capping small health pickups to 200 (but MH would allow you to go over that)

[ai]

Making caps on health and armor is something I am very against. This is a unique feature for Nexuiz and I don't want it to become like any other games. No matter if it's small healths or big ones, capping is bad!

[FruitieX]

I am also against making caps to the health/armor, if you can keep your health and armor constantly over 250, it's either the mapper or enemy that is at fault :]