cvars for better performance

[halogene]

Everybody can see that my graph is not the result of a scientific process and I have never claimed that.

As I assumed.

Like the kink in the curve when player moves from amateur to professional status and later uses doping substances.

I'd be careful with statements about doping. I take it for granted we both agree using doping substances is NOT a stage in the natural development of a player over a given timeline.

That being said, I think your "graph" outlines that using the configuration tweaks results in a boost of the player's performance. I still do not see what is bothering you. Using specific settings can make some players play better.

So? Why is that a problem? Everybody should be entitled to use the settings they feel the most comfortable with, as long as they don't modify the game content or use bots or stuff like that.

[Vordreller]

You can prove anything with statistics. If we using cvars is considered cheating, then there are a lot of cheaters in Nexuiz.


If just one way of interpreting it. It's not because some people don't want to use these variables due to some sense of pride or honor, that everyone agrees with that.

If anyone considers this cheating, good on them. I don't. I have the option and I'm using it whilst you are not. That's my choice and yours next to eachother. Either get over it or stop complaining.

[Samual]

To be honest, I think this whole argument is null and useless (As you can't enforce ANYTHING with an opensource engine, especially since it was already so open before). But well, my opinion on it is that only a select few cvars really do any harm. On my server I use patches to force cvars such as fog and other things like that in order to keep the game fair.... (You can do that, btw..) But well, doing that makes low end computers suffer.. which is a bad thing. The whole point these cvars are there is so that low end computers can survive playing the game. I don't think it's an advantage, though, as I always play with sv_fbskin and all those other cvars which make visibility AMAZING.

[halogene]

To be honest, I think this whole argument is null and useless

No it isn't. It is a very nice argument that is going on now for more than a day and just exceeded its trial period. I only haven't found the time to write a bill yet.

And it is not only contradiction! Want to join in?

[Lee_Stricklin]

I thought we determined what was cheating and what was not on a thread I posted.

http://forums.alientrap.local/viewtopic.php?t=5469

[halogene]

I thought we determined what was cheating and what was not on a thread I posted.

http://forums.alientrap.local/viewtopic.php?t=5469

Yes we did, and I agree with the outcome of that thread. But obviously dana doesn't.

So I try to find out why, although I seem to have troubles understanding what dana is on about. Must be me, but give me some time, maybe I'll get it sooner or later. I am just curious.

[Radiohe4d]

On my server I use patches to force cvars such as fog and other things like that in order to keep the game fair.... (You can do that, btw..)

More details on that please, sounds very interesting to me.

[dana]

So? Why is that a problem?

The problem is the interaction between the game and the player base. If there is an advantage and the only ones who take it are those who are heavily focused on competition (quake picmip players). You can imagine what will happen… At a certain point these players will have the majority and there will be no way to change course, to make the game more open and fun. I assume it's a circle of people for whom the only adequate remuneration is that the others have no chance ("CTS" style).
But as far as I can see, that's already the case. The average Nexuiz player uses r_sky 0 and stuff to increase the performance. That's just crazy if you put it into relation to the number of players…"Useless", "deal with it" and whatever are just symptoms.
But maybe that is for what Nexuiz was designed. I don't know.

It's a question about which kind of people play Nexuiz, are in the stronger position and influence the future of the game. Nexuiz is free. New players have no interest to leave a comment. Their voice is the number of players. You have to take that into consideration.

For my part, I don't like to play in a small sphere in which everyone knows everyone. On that score, I have seen some crazy stuff going on in the last time.

ps the generalization is for a better understanding

[halogene]

I do not feel this kind of development that you are depicting. I myself, as stated above, do not play with any cvars that improve visibility (and never have cared to do so). I am not a very good player, but I am usually not "pwned" heavily in Deathmatch games (see for example http://delight.vapor.com/pstats.php?pl=Halogene). The most times that I play I meet people that enjoy playing and are good sports. This is especially true for most of the players that play more frequently and that I know already from the nick. Even if such players use cvars to enhance their performance, they usually will stay absolutely friendly towards other players and keep a fun atmosphere. Many experienced players start to tell tips and tricks to newbies if they notice they want to learn stuff. I do not feel those people are heavily focused on competition.

It may be a totally different thing for Minsta games, as I can see how the cvars would have a bigger impact on the player's performance. And maybe the player base in Minsta is different?

On a side note, as for r_sky 0 I do not quite see your point, because it is fps related only.

But please consider, that my experiences may base on my own behaviour and that I tend to type a lot of "nice map control" or "well played" or stuff like that when I loose a match and feel my opponent has played well. Also, when someone does a good frag on me, I tell him that. You will get totally different feedback from players, even nice players, if you say "pff! Another guy with cheating cvars enabled" at the end of a game.

[Bundy]

So? Why is that a problem?

The problem is the interaction between the game and the player base. If there is an advantage and the only ones who take it are those who are heavily focused on competition (quake picmip players). You can imagine what will happen… At a certain point these players will have the majority and there will be no way to change course, to make the game more open and fun. I assume it's a circle of people for whom the only adequate remuneration is that the others have no chance ("CTS" style).
But as far as I can see, that's already the case. The average Nexuiz player uses r_sky 0 and stuff to increase the performance. That's just crazy if you put it into relation to the number of players…"Useless", "deal with it" and whatever are just symptoms.
But maybe that is for what Nexuiz was designed. I don't know.

It's a question about which kind of people play Nexuiz, are in the stronger position and influence the future of the game. Nexuiz is free. New players have no interest to leave a comment. Their voice is the number of players. You have to take that into consideration.

For my part, I don't like to play in a small sphere in which everyone knows everyone. On that score, I have seen some crazy stuff going on in the last time.

ps the generalization is for a better understanding

Isn´t that quite normal in any game? When the quake3 playerbase was bigger, it was also split between the competive gamers and those who play for fun. And as long as there arent any big tournements with big prize pools, the number of competive gamers will stay pretty low compared to other games. In nexuiz we have some Beginner servers, which is a good thing. On the other hand there were not any in quake3 and it wasnt a problem there. And to be honest, I think you can count the number of very good players in TDM/1on1 nexuiz on 2 hands. This game is definitive beatable with or without a tweaked config, when you have stable FPS and want to improve your game. A tweaked CFG might give you 2-3% more accuracy for some weapons, which might decide about a win or not when 2 equal skilled players fight each other. But I think thats about it and wont break the game.

Btw. better equipment like mouse/mousepad and a nice connection will improve your aiming a lot more then some tweaks. If we go that far, is it cheating to have the better equipment ?