SERIOUS weapon balancing problems due new antilag

[Flying Steel]

Powerful shotgun, weak shotgun, either way it always has the same problem which ruins it one way or the other- no real ammo consumption. With the new ammo chomping machinegun, the shotty is now the only ammo weapon left that never actually runs out of ammo.

That is/should be the laser's job- unlimited ammo but limited damage and versatility. But instead you also have this tag along shotgun weapon that either does useless damage like it seemed to in 2.4 or kicks so much ass that people complain about it being the only weapon you need in 2.3, 2.5 and 2.6, but both ways stem from the fact it never runs out of ammo.

LordHavoc wants a real shotgun that does real damage, and I think that's a great idea. But, real shotguns also use big ass shells and can't fit that many in even a drum clip. 40 rounds is insane. Just make it 8 shells and then its out, and make it just as strong and interesting a weapon as any of the others.

I would take it one step further and randomize the starting weapon so you don't always get a shotgun but instead might get a machinegun, rocket launcher or rifle. It doesn't matter as long as everyone get's something of equal effectiveness and it runs out of ammo in the first fight or two anyway (which all the weapons besides shotgun and laser currently do).

[k0jak]

LordHavoc wants a real shotgun that does real damage, and I think that's a great idea. But, real shotguns also use big ass shells and can't fit that many in even a drum clip. 40 rounds is insane. Just make it 8 shells and then its out, and make it just as strong and interesting a weapon as any of the others.

Well it doesn't HAVE to have a realistic clip-holder amount

Like the idea though of a real shotgun, something as powerful, or slightly more powerful then Q3s shotgun, same kind of distance to damage ratio would be cool.

How does 8-12 shots per 'clip' sound Flying steel, and one ammo for each Shot fired

[FraNcoTirAdoR]

ai: with the new settings shotgun is really unplayable I agree, but with those cvar Ronan mentioned the situation is far much better, if you want to take a look at the new weapons come to "Big Bada Boom" server (filter for "BBB" in the serverlist), its using the 2.5.3 weapon balance settings where hitscan weapons are weaker, and its finally playable.

flying steel: no, people shouldnt get a starting weapon as strong as the current shotgun, even with 8 ammo its damn strong, if you pick up nex you have an unbeatable combo-weapon duo immediately, and you just needed to pick one weapon for that. The basic idea that you have a weapon that helps in movement (laser) and a weapon that helps survive a little (shotgun) until you pick up any weapon from the map.

[merlijn]

These changes are also applied on the Simba CTF server.

I have also added one cvar to that list:

g_balance_shotgun_secondary_bullets 4

(many players JUST use secondary because indeed it rarily runs out of ammo)

[Flying Steel]

Well it doesn't HAVE to have a realistic clip-holder amount

Like the idea though of a real shotgun, something as powerful, or slightly more powerful then Q3s shotgun, same kind of distance to damage ratio would be cool.

How does 8-12 shots per 'clip' sound Flying steel, and one ammo for each Shot fired

Sounds good to me.

flying steel: no, people shouldnt get a starting weapon as strong as the current shotgun, even with 8 ammo its damn strong, if you pick up nex you have an unbeatable combo-weapon duo immediately, and you just needed to pick one weapon for that. The basic idea that you have a weapon that helps in movement (laser) and a weapon that helps survive a little (shotgun) until you pick up any weapon from the map.

Well the Nex is basically an unbeatable combo with any other weapon, including laser. But either way, 2.6 marks the end of the Nex, and the CR's refire and secondary means it needs no combo.

[FraNcoTirAdoR]

A quick feedback after 2 days of testing the new weapon balance: I think shotgun is still a tiny bit overpowered with 9 damage, at least based on those matches played on BBB server, also the +0.1 sec refire time didnt really change basically the spammability with camping rifle.
I think the perfect balance would be 8 damage for shotgun and 0.9 refire with camping rifle primary, please give these values a try. As i experienced shotgun is still a stronger in face-to-face close ranged fights than crylink, if you aim well and use the primary.

[Lee_Stricklin]

Well the Nex is basically an unbeatable combo with any other weapon, including laser. But either way, 2.6 marks the end of the Nex, and the CR's refire and secondary means it needs no combo.

WHAT!? *Goes sits in corner and cries*

[Flying Steel]

Well the Nex is basically an unbeatable combo with any other weapon, including laser. But either way, 2.6 marks the end of the Nex, and the CR's refire and secondary means it needs no combo.

WHAT!? *Goes sits in corner and cries*

Well you know what I mean, there's still a hitscan weapon called the Nex with the same visuals/audio that consumes 5 cell ammo (I think), but it fires about 3 times faster, does only 60 damage and will someday soon have damage falloff over range (the code to support this is already implemented in 2.5.2 I believe).

BTW, with all that in mind, it really seems like it is about time for the Nex to get a secondary attack finally. Maybe the Nex secondary attack could be an attack with reverse falloff- no damage in close but eventually builds up to 60-100 damage over like 10,000 to 40,000 Quake Units (AKA Inches).

[Lee_Stricklin]

Well the Nex is basically an unbeatable combo with any other weapon, including laser. But either way, 2.6 marks the end of the Nex, and the CR's refire and secondary means it needs no combo.

WHAT!? *Goes sits in corner and cries*

Well you know what I mean, there's still a hitscan weapon called the Nex with the same visuals/audio that consumes 5 cell ammo (I think), but it fires about 3 times faster, does only 60 damage and will someday soon have damage falloff over range (the code to support this is already implemented in 2.5.2 I believe).

BTW, with all that in mind, it really seems like it is about time for the Nex to get a secondary attack finally. Maybe the Nex secondary attack could be an attack with reverse falloff- no damage in close but eventually builds up to 60-100 damage over like 10,000 to 40,000 Quake Units (AKA Inches).

Oh, they're modifying it so that it's no longer a broken weapon. Can you do me a favor and try to not scare the shit out of me in the future?

[Flying Steel]

Oh, they're modifying it so that it's no longer a broken weapon. Can you do me a favor and try to not scare the shit out of me in the future?

Well what you are saying is the thought of losing the Nex' aesthetics scares you shitless?

Because gameplay wise the Nex is completely redesigned- the Rifle has alot more in common with the current Nex than the 2.6 Nex gun does.

Don't get me wrong though, I like the 2.6 Nex alot better than the current overpowered one.