Shotgun, why I think it's overpowered as a starting weapon.

[morfar]

Pfft you call those weapon upgrades?

See: http://free-game-downloads.mosw.com/aba ... blast.html

That game had weapon upgrades.

Ah here we are, just skip through it to see the final awesome result:
( I have this for the amiga, its great fun)

omg, I was just about to post this game. I had it on Sega Mega Drive II. You could buy cool weapon upgrades

[k0jak]

Well just played out 2on2tdm tournament game, and although they were close game's it was almost all...minigun, and shotgun - the most disappointing game i've played.

Although teamplay was quite lacking it wasn't hard to understand why, no chance..or even no time to do anything, as soon as I or kyre got some stuff we were immediately mowed down by the sg mostly, and another 1 second mg barrage. So it became impossible to even group up a lot.

Trying to secure the quad was as equally frustrarting, which ended up being who got there the latest with there sg's..which on both maps was mainly doom squirrels, I think we got 2 quads on the second map the whole game.

I can't blame anyone except the game, no one really sucked albeit out of practice a little, our opponents both had good german pings (s0rk and thyr4ne) but the match became a two/three weapon game of, sg,mg and nex (which became useless vs mg most of the time)

Reminds me of how demoralizing this game is to play at times, and people moan about the nex gun damage

4 hit's is what it took to pretty much kill me with 100health and some armour with the mg.

I once had 120/200 h/a on aneurysm and was dead after 2 shotgun secondary combo's and something else that hit me.

Please fix this game, what's the point of even picking up other weapons anymore with this stupid damage.

[FruitieX]

Well just played out 2on2tdm tournament game, and although they were close game's it was almost all...minigun, and shotgun - the most disappointing game i've played.

Although teamplay was quite lacking it wasn't hard to understand why, no chance..or even no time to do anything, as soon as I or kyre got some stuff we were immediately mowed down by the sg mostly, and another 1 second mg barrage. So it became impossible to even group up a lot.

Trying to secure the quad was as equally frustrarting, which ended up being who got there the latest with there sg's..which on both maps was mainly doom squirrels, I think we got 2 quads on the second map the whole game.

I can't blame anyone except the game, no one really sucked albeit out of practice a little, our opponents both had good german pings (s0rk and thyr4ne) but the match became a two/three weapon game of, sg,mg and nex (which became useless vs mg most of the time)

Reminds me of how demoralizing this game is to play at times, and people moan about the nex gun damage

4 hit's is what it took to pretty much kill me with 100health and some armour with the mg.

I once had 120/200 h/a on aneurysm and was dead after 2 shotgun secondary combo's and something else that hit me.

Please fix this game, what's the point of even picking up other weapons anymore with this stupid damage.

+100,000 that, mg and sg are very annoying.

It's silly that you start with a weapon that has:
- Low spread (primary: for a shotgun, yes, really low)
- Good accuracy, good even in mid-range: can inflict quite a lot of damage over even high distances if only you hit with primary
- Great in short-range battles with the secondary
- Low refire, low animtime
- High damage as kojn said

Which disadvantages even exist with the shotgun, except for no splash damage? Why pick up another weapon at all?

[Dahveed]

Without the machine gun or shotgun, I think the Nex would be even more overpowered. I can't say how many time I've taken down a sniper with them when I didn't have a Nex myself.

As for your example, I find that strange from my own experience. I haven't seen games where either a) both sides stuck to the MG and SG or b) one side stuck to those weapons and had an unfair advantage. Most of the unfair dominance I see comes from Nex usage.

Using the SG and MG seems unfair but there are ways to counter them. Good ways include closing the distance and using other weapons, especially ones that disorient the player (rocket launcher and mortar for instance). Also, while hitscan seems like an advantage, it isn't always, since if you miss you miss (there's no splash damage to help you). So, if you can really maneuver yourself well (which I see a lot of good players do), people will have a harder time hitting you with the SG and MG.

In close to mid range fights, both the MG and SG don't have as much damage per second. Yeah, a talented aimer holding down the primary machine gun fire, or two dead on secondary fire shotgun bursts can do a ton of damage...but I find most people aren't that good at doing so. Even if they are, they could probably kill you faster with another weapon anyway (which is what I see they usually do).

Not to mention the shotgun and machine gun are relatively useless for taking down groups of opponents.

[k0jak]

Dahveed, you really need to play against better opposition then

The fact is, out of no other games have I played have I had such a massively powerful starting weapon/s..you don't just get the sg you get the laser too.

There's little point in grabbing another weapon very little in trying to control a weapon (like the nex which should be as it is) and trying to control a map. On aneurysm I just played my own game because that was the only way I was getting frags and decided just to stay in the distance all the time, , it was pointless fighting for nex/rl etc, the mg was easier to get and was doing more damage along with my sg.

You should gain frags with the less powerful weapons by using skill and cunningness, but there's no need, go grab the mg or use your sg and wade into battle and you'll most likely either kill someone or do a hell of a lot of damage.

I mean on one map the RL was pointless, I hardly even got a shot off before I was mowed down, 4 bullet's to kill a spawned player from the mg with it's secondary fire...

Kyre will vouch for me with this too, as will most of seasoned nexuiz players on here, it's just ridiculous.

I wish we could just keep a set of good balance for once and for all, without it having to be changed constantly when there is no need.

[k0jak]

Well just played out 2on2tdm tournament game, and although they were close game's it was almost all...minigun, and shotgun - the most disappointing game i've played.

Although teamplay was quite lacking it wasn't hard to understand why, no chance..or even no time to do anything, as soon as I or kyre got some stuff we were immediately mowed down by the sg mostly, and another 1 second mg barrage. So it became impossible to even group up a lot.

Trying to secure the quad was as equally frustrarting, which ended up being who got there the latest with there sg's..which on both maps was mainly doom squirrels, I think we got 2 quads on the second map the whole game.

I can't blame anyone except the game, no one really sucked albeit out of practice a little, our opponents both had good german pings (s0rk and thyr4ne) but the match became a two/three weapon game of, sg,mg and nex (which became useless vs mg most of the time)

Reminds me of how demoralizing this game is to play at times, and people moan about the nex gun damage

4 hit's is what it took to pretty much kill me with 100health and some armour with the mg.

I once had 120/200 h/a on aneurysm and was dead after 2 shotgun secondary combo's and something else that hit me.

Please fix this game, what's the point of even picking up other weapons anymore with this stupid damage.

+100,000 that, mg and sg are very annoying.

It's silly that you start with a weapon that has:
- Low spread (primary: for a shotgun, yes, really low)
- Good accuracy, good even in mid-range: can inflict quite a lot of damage over even high distances if only you hit with primary
- Great in short-range battles with the secondary
- Low refire, low animtime
- High damage as kojn said

Which disadvantages even exist with the shotgun, except for no splash damage? Why pick up another weapon at all?

Nail on the head

[Samual]

Well, I nerfed the shotgun in my balance even more recently... The spread is ridiculous (You can't hit anyone more than 10 feet away with more than 1 bullet) and the damage is reduced DRAMATICALLY... Also: No force on the bullets... Basically, the shotgun is weaker than the laser right now in my balance to a certain extent... (Except at very close range, that's the only place where this weapon is useful, think of it as a GET OUT OF MY SPAWNING AREA YOU SPAWN RAPING BASTARD weapon)

[k0jak]

Sounds good.

Is there a server where I can play with these settings Samual?

Also, is 2.6 going to be a huge revamp or not now, I heard it isn't and the settings will be voteable..which basically would mean no one would use them and stick to the current stuff we have. Is it still going to become default/different weapons and movement etc?

[Sepelio]

I agree Samual's changes seem like just the ticket.

The other issue of course is the good old MG which is attracting much whining. It is just downright insane. I personally think the only real solution is to add recoil to it so it gets more spread with each shot. This will stop people just getting 999 bullets and spraying everywhere.

[Samual]

Is there a server where I can play with these settings Samual? Also, is 2.6 going to be a huge revamp or not now, I heard it isn't and the settings will be voteable..which basically would mean no one would use them and stick to the current stuff we have. Is it still going to become default/different weapons and movement etc?

My server is located at matrix.mcintec.net:26000 (Or just matrix.mcintec.net) -- It has my balance/physics up most if not all the time... Also, my balance/physics will become default, but of course the server owner still has domain on whatever balance they want to use.. It really is their choice. And in all honesty, I think people will like the new balance if they're open minded to the reasons I chose the settings I did. (Note, there are severals who already are fine with it.. It is hard to get used to though, I will admit.) I would also like to point out that I have done some tests with friends seeing which balance they like better, being that they've never played the game before.. 90% (9/10) liked my balance better -- And no, I did not tell them it was my own balance. -- One of them didn't like either balance though, but they're into slower gameplay.. I pointed them to old old havoc and they liked that.. But there's no way in hell that is becoming default, as it ruins the game for EVERYONE except that one person who likes slow games.. Anyway, I will explain the reasons for the changes on my server directly if anyone shows up, they're hard to explain without actually being directly there due to feedback people will inevitably have.

I agree Samual's changes seem like just the ticket. The other issue of course is the good old MG which is attracting much whining. It is just downright insane. I personally think the only real solution is to add recoil to it so it gets more spread with each shot. This will stop people just getting 999 bullets and spraying everywhere.

Try mine, hopefully it's not too bad... I really do want more input on several weapons actually, mostly being the MG and the rifle.


Anyway my full goal with the balance is pleasing most people, as you can't really please everybody... And i'm going to the direction of faster gameplay. Some people may not like this, but from discussions i've had, most of the Nexuiz players like faster gameplay better than slower gameplay. I'll leave with: My physics are like a mix between 2.3 physics and nanl, but slightly slower...