Shotgun, why I think it's overpowered as a starting weapon.

[Flying Steel]

But uh, what's wrong with 2.5's physics?

[tZork]

But uh, what's wrong with 2.5's physics?

Its old, gotta change things up every release to keep 'em guessing Seriously tough, i second this question.

[Samual]

But uh, what's wrong with 2.5's physics?

Its old, gotta change things up every release to keep 'em guessing Seriously tough, i second this question.

Nothing much really, however the point of increasing their speed is for faster gameplay... I already covered this in my last post (People like faster gameplay)

But really, other than that, why DO we keep changing the physics? I know we changed the 2.5 physics with sv_pogostick... But, why did it change in the past? Is it just a strive to keep evolving? Or were their issues that pressed it to change.. (The balance of course changes because of a need for a rebalance, any developer knows when you add a new weapon you need to rebalance at least slightly and etc )

[Flying Steel]

It's not that we wanted faster physics, its that we didn't want the havoc weapon balance that was going to make killing someone take forever (and be terribly boring in every other way too).

Your physics aren't bad and they'd probably be really fun on open maps, but they aren't really better than 2.5's, so IMO 2.5 physics should be default for 2.6, which could then focus on being a significant weapon balance change.

If there was character class code working, I'd recommend simply spreading these different physics presents over different characters. So I'm not against different physics, just if you have one default preset, then it seems like 2.5 is the best fit yet for such a place.

[Lee_Stricklin]

It's not that we wanted faster physics, its that we didn't want the havoc weapon balance that was going to make killing someone take forever (and be terribly boring in every other way too).

Your physics aren't bad and they'd probably be really fun on open maps, but they aren't really better than 2.5's, so IMO 2.5 physics should be default for 2.6, which could then focus on being a significant weapon balance change.

If there was character class code working, I'd recommend simply spreading these different physics presents over different characters. So I'm not against different physics, just if you have one default preset, then it seems like 2.5 is the best fit yet for such a place.

If possible, I always thought physics and weapon balance should be map specific, but I don't know much about the inner workings of Nexuiz or Dark Places and I can't code for squat. Ideally that would be the best way to do it though.

[Samual]

If possible, I always thought physics and weapon balance should be map specific, but I don't know much about the inner workings of Nexuiz or Dark Places and I can't code for squat. Ideally that would be the best way to do it though.

They can with a mapinfo file.. But, regardless, that should not happen for balance (It's fine for physics) --- Balance always changes and over time the map would become obsolete due to outdated balance. (For example, if the game code changes a lot)

Anyway, I discovered that we didn't really change the physics very much.. (Only a few times actually) The main reason we changed them is because of a bug or due to other problems with the current physics.. Because of this, there is no reason to change them for 2.6 and I won't make my physics default. In fact, we aren't really supposed to change the physics in minor releases anyway.. If anything, the change will happen at 3.0.

[k0jak]

In my opinion your making it harder for newer player's to learn them if they keep changing.

I like most other's will say just keep them (no need to change them again, unless it's to CPM physics )

Back on topic, the machinegun isn't as bad as I though, but it still needs weakening a bit.

It's the shotgun that needs completely changing (and I know you've done this).

I'm free this weekend, so would be nice if you can join me on your server so I can see the settings and have a shoot with the shotgun

[GreEn`mArine]

Actually I think I can finally get around to tweak the MG and SG for ladder servers this weekend too.

To save me some time, does anybody know the values that are supposed to be used officially for the next release? From what I've heard, changing weapons officially for the next release is just to weaken ("fix") the SG and MG anyawy. Otherwise my suggestion would be to make the SG half as powerful and MG maybe 70% of 2.5.2 settings, regarding DPM (damage per minute)

[k0jak]

I'd try 70% or 75% seems like a reasonable figure to be honest, 30% will be noticeable and SHOULD have a good impact any weaker and I think it'll become too useless so 70% sounds good. One thing is for sure don't make it too weak. Although I have been enjoying out mg fights as of late in 1on1

Just SG sucks ass, so looking forward to your change for that!

[Flying Steel]

Bah, why are we once again ducking the most obvious and effective solution to this ancient problem?

If it is overpowered as a starting weapons, then make it not a starting weapon! Make it a pickup, similar to the machine gun, only balanced to be more effective as a close-quarters weapon. Then you have done three very good deeds at once:

1) Balanced the shotgun.
2) Made the shotgun not mind-numbingly useless and boring.
3) Prevented the next dozen of these shotgun balancing threads from ever happening.

The laser is the starting and backup weapon, it is not overpowered and it never runs out of ammo. That's enough, make the shotgun a real weapon.