Shotgun, why I think it's overpowered as a starting weapon.

[k0jak]

I've played with it with what are meant to be the same fixes that will be 2.5.3

For me the primary is fine, this is how it should be and no problem with it, is strong enough to do some damage and accurate, like the Q3 mg and UT enforcer.

It's the secondary that really ruins the game for me, it just doesn't fit.

It's way too strong, and always the nex + secondary shotgun can do insane damage..it's not the nex it's the shotgun which is so frustrating with it's secondary fire and stupid push.

Anyone else agree, I just think it would be so much more balanced if we didn't have to put up with the secondary.

For me the nex seems to do so much damage, because you can take some one very quickly with nex + sg secondary + nex if you land both nex shot's, it's also more likely to hit then firing 3x nex shot's in a row also.

This is the only thing that makes me curse/whine in games, very frustrating to have quite a health/armour advantage and this do so much damage.

I really like all the weapons now, the game has come on a long-way, but the secondary of the shotgun make's me want to stop playing again.

[Sepelio]

I'm inclined to agree. The shotgun seems to have silly push as well, I compare it to the old crylink that would just stop you dead in your tracks. The secondary is just nuts in that with a bit of skill you can use just shotgun + laser to kill people who are significantly better equipped.

[pain_fedora6]

Completely agree, i don't know the actual statistics, but in openish spaces secondary sg can render most other weapons , including mortar, rl completely inadequate. I mean its so frustrating, i m even inclined to think nowadays for low ping ppl whoa! a shotgun whore (!!!!!!!) funny : ) ....DM is now not minsta, but shotgunsta matches : ) .It's really fun, ppl just freshly spawning behind you FULLY stacked and 100/100 and just take you out with a couple of shots : ) utterly frustrating. I would also increase the spread of it tbh a bit more.

[Samual]

I've played with it with what are meant to be the same fixes that will be 2.5.3 For me the primary is fine, this is how it should be and no problem with it, is strong enough to do some damage and accurate, like the Q3 mg and UT enforcer. It's the secondary that really ruins the game for me, it just doesn't fit. It's way too strong, and always the nex + secondary shotgun can do insane damage..it's not the nex it's the shotgun which is so frustrating with it's secondary fire and stupid push. Anyone else agree, I just think it would be so much more balanced if we didn't have to put up with the secondary. For me the nex seems to do so much damage, because you can take some one very quickly with nex + sg secondary + nex if you land both nex shot's, it's also more likely to hit then firing 3x nex shot's in a row also. This is the only thing that makes me curse/whine in games, very frustrating to have quite a health/armour advantage and this do so much damage. I really like all the weapons now, the game has come on a long-way, but the secondary of the shotgun make's me want to stop playing again.

It sounds like you would love my balance... Basically, all the points you made are fixed in my balance as I nerf the sg quite a bit. WARNING: Do not misunderstand the word nerf... It isn't simply "weaker," it's just different.

I'm inclined to agree. The shotgun seems to have silly push as well, I compare it to the old crylink that would just stop you dead in your tracks. The secondary is just nuts in that with a bit of skill you can use just shotgun + laser to kill people who are significantly better equipped.

My shotgun has no push, as bullets do not have push in real life...

Completely agree, i don't know the actual statistics, but in openish spaces secondary sg can render most other weapons , including mortar, rl completely inadequate. I mean its so frustrating, i m even inclined to think nowadays for low ping ppl whoa! a shotgun whore (!!!!!!!) funny : ) ....DM is now not minsta, but shotgunsta matches : ) .It's really fun, ppl just freshly spawning behind you FULLY stacked and 100/100 and just take you out with a couple of shots : ) utterly frustrating. I would also increase the spread of it tbh a bit more.

Some of your points are really quite exaggerated, but I get your point.. Again, it's fixed.


But yes, the main change I did was no force... You have no idea how much of a difference it makes.. It places the gun in a usable, but less than powerful, status. (Like the laser, although that's used for other things mostly.) -- Note, my balance will be the 2.6 balance, so this change will be done.

[parasti]

My shotgun has no push, as bullets do not have push in real life...

Good job, dude. That would have been beyond unacceptable in a game that is otherwise completely based in reality...

[k0jak]

Good to hear samual, but does that mean the secondary will still be in place?

I like UT and Q3 because the enforcer and machine gun both are STARTING weapons, and they do a bit of damage, but do what they are meant to do which is give you a BASIC weapon for defending, against armour and shieldbelt in both game's they both take quite a long while to kill someone. Currently in nexuiz this is not the case and it's crazy.

It's also very frustrating as it's very hard to get any kind of lock (from a competitive point of view) on a map as people just gun you down with the shogun all to quickly as you know.

Another down-side is it forces people not to use the other weapons like crylink/hagar/electro.

Well kind of a shame nexuiz is changing dramatically in 2.6 in one way, but I just hope it's all for the best

Can you msg me on IRC if you want some help testing some stuff or practice game's or something would like to contribute to make sure 2.6 is as good as possible as it can be gameplay wise

[tZork]

Tough i had a fun time slaughtering stached ppl and racking up 30 kill sprees with the shotty only in the original 2.5.2 balance , I agree with OP. Still I do like the availability of a brutal close range wep. One solution could be ti not have the secondary fire available at spawn, but as a pickup (weapon upgrade pickups in general could be fun =) And yeh the push bugs me too, perhaps even more then the dmg output.

Samual's balance seem to RAMP UP the shotty's secondary to a max of ~180 dmg (6 pellets, 10 dmg each x 3) Its also got all sorts of funky shit like nex damage based on range etc. so its hard to compare. Personally i prefer the 2.3.2 balance with sg/mg fix and some minor tweaks to this.

[Sepelio]

I like the idea of the pickup weapon upgrades. Thats quite neat.

[tZork]

This "nerf" of yours Samual.. its not nerfing.

(Just uploaded, quality will get better)

[paperclips]

Spoiler:

LOL! When someone mention weapon upgrades, I always think about Lifeforce!

I think this could be well within the range of awesome!
If I would have some wishful thinking granted, it would be this/article. ;P

(Click for proper academic PDF saucedge)