Requesting removal of weapon nr. 8 - Hagar

[Clueless Newbie]

My only real issue with the Hagar is that the secondary firemode doesn't seem terribly fun or useful.

It's good for shooting around corners.

Of course, Nexuiz has several weapons that can do that.

[Clueless Newbie]

What i think about weapons:

1. Laser (alt fire mode needed)

Alt fire mode switches back to prev weapon. I'd hate to lose that. Seriously. The "laser" needs a new name though. What it does has absolutely nothing to do with lasers. I'd like to call it an "impulse gun" or something.

2. Shotgun - maybe decrease the spread / or / increase damage and increase spread. One way it becomes trad. shot, other - flack cannon. People use crylink in very close combat -> shotgun is seldom used -> bad.

How about replacing it with a baseball bat? No range, but packs a huge wallop (one hit = kill?) at very close range — at least from behind. Yes, players get close enough to do that. I know I do. Has to be a relatively slow weapon though.

3. Crylink - rebalance (sec fire became useless, imo).

Bounce made the primary attack useful. Alt fire is useful at a distance. Still not my fav weapon though.

4. Electro - 1st mode shots should leave blobs of plasma (I liked that )

Kinda like it the way it is now.

5. Hagar (prefer mortar or rl over hagar, never use 2nd fire - seems not effective).

Not my favorite weapon, but I don't mind it. It is kinda blah though.

6. Mortar (classic, 2nd is useless, it takes too long for detonation, i can't personally kill anyone with it),

Suggestions for the alt trigger: 1) Fires a dozen bouncy nades at the same time. Beware of lag (and yes, I like spammy weapons ). 2) Fires sticky nade; instead of exploding on impact, it just sits where it hits until enemy gets too close. BOOM. Also detonates up if too close to other sticky nades. Electro bolts also make it blow up. Blow up regardless after x minutes.

7. RocketLauncher (2nd fire shoudln't be left empty, i would like smth what flack cannon 2nd fire did).

Alt fire isn't empty; it makes the rocket blow up. That's a very very useful trigger.

8. Nex (just renamed railgun, classic).

I would like a mellee weapon.

Yeah; like a baseball bat..

IMHO the devs should avoid signature weapons from other games. No light-sabers or BFGs or such. Keep nex unique and develop signature weapons that are unique to this game instead — such as the "laser".

[Alien]

They are not limited to solely Quake 3 Arena, anything suitable to a run-and-gun shooter may be used, namely certain weapon fire modes from the entire Quake & Unreal Tournament series.

Nexuiz' primary shotgun fire mode is of the original Quake shotgun, secondary fire mode is similar to the Quake super shotgun, in terms of damage, spread, refire time, and ammunition consumed.

Did you Ever try to go with sg versus nex in close combat? Both sg sec and nex should kill you in one successful shot. Still sg user is dead because sg secondary second and third shot takes time to come out, while nex kills you immediately. With sg you could kill people in quake, haven't seen anyone effective with it in Nexuiz. Don't forget that in Nexuiz players have more hp than in Quake + regeneration, so same damage does not work.

[tZork]

They are not limited to solely Quake 3 Arena, anything suitable to a run-and-gun shooter may be used, namely certain weapon fire modes from the entire Quake & Unreal Tournament series.

Nexuiz' primary shotgun fire mode is of the original Quake shotgun, secondary fire mode is similar to the Quake super shotgun, in terms of damage, spread, refire time, and ammunition consumed.

Did you Ever try to go with sg versus nex in close combat? Both sg sec and nex should kill you in one successful shot. Still sg user is dead because sg secondary second and third shot takes time to come out, while nex kills you immediately. With sg you could kill people in quake, haven't seen anyone effective with it in Nexuiz. Don't forget that in Nexuiz players have more hp than in Quake + regeneration, so same damage does not work.

i feel you are missing something here - area of affect. I often kill nex, or even rl wilding players with the shotty. it has enough spread to require little aiming while still doing decent+ dmg. the trick for me is to stay far enough away to allow decent movement (and in the case of rl/electro/gl, enough to avoid most of the splash) and close enough to make precise aim difficult. also firing the primary a few times first then moving in a bit closer and firing the secondary (it has wider spread) will upp your success allot.

The nex OTOH hits or misses on a pinhead sized surface. and it has no alternate fire mode for backup either. ofcourse if you do (get) hit it does a chunk of dmg, but anyone who tried to hit a fast moving target at close range knows that's not exactly easy.

Oh and dont confuse the shottys theoretical maximum dmg with its effective. you have to be at.... "personal distance" to hit with all the pellets. you will have to work for it, but it IS worth it.[/list]

[RoKenn]

My only real issue with the Hagar is that the secondary firemode doesn't seem terribly fun or useful.

Therefore I suggest that tZork's mod is integrated into Nexuiz.

In his mod the secondary hagar shoots a series of shots and if the first hits a target the following shots will automatically target the victim.

The only chance for the victim to get rid of the other bullets is to let them crash into a wall.

[OverDriven]

Sigh...

So the Hagar is too powerful because you get killed with it. Well, learn to avoid it and defend yourself. I would say it is the weapon I am killed LEAST by. It also is not a rapid fire rocket launcher. The spash and damage are FAR less than a rocket. Of course some weapons are more powerful than others...that's the point. Do you want them all to be the same power as the laser gun? That would be awful. Some will blow you to bits in one shot, some will take several shots and some are hard to kill anyone with at all (like the shotgun). That's the point of having several weapons. The Hagar is also a visual feast and one of the weapons that is very unique to Nexuiz. Taking it out would suck, to put it lightly IMO.

Like someone else said, if you don't like it, make custom maps without it. If the gameplay without it is truly better as you say it would be, people would surely adopt your maps. I have a feeling that wouldn't happen though.

IMO only two weapon changes need to be made. First, the Crylink needs be be slightly nerfed IMO. I emphasize SLIGHT. Second, the shotgun needs more power. It really is completely useless as it currently stands. All IMO of course.

BTW...I think it would be very cool to add a weapon that can be shot like a rocket, and then when the secondary is hit (while in flight), it spray projectiles in every direction. It would be like a room clearance weapon. Shoot it through a doorway and then detonate. Proximity mines and remote mines would also be a very cool addition.

[Alien]

i feel you are missing something here - area of affect. I often kill nex, or even rl wilding players with the shotty. it has enough spread to require little aiming while still doing decent+ dmg. the trick for me is to stay far enough away to allow decent movement (and in the case of rl/electro/gl, enough to avoid most of the splash) and close enough to make precise aim difficult. also firing the primary a few times first then moving in a bit closer and firing the secondary (it has wider spread) will upp your success allot.

The nex OTOH hits or misses on a pinhead sized surface. and it has no alternate fire mode for backup either. ofcourse if you do (get) hit it does a chunk of dmg, but anyone who tried to hit a fast moving target at close range knows that's not exactly easy.

Oh and dont confuse the shottys theoretical maximum dmg with its effective. you have to be at.... "personal distance" to hit with all the pellets. you will have to work for it, but it IS worth it.

Yeah, YOU kill players which are wielding nex. You don't mention the quality of the players. It easy for you cause you KNOW how to play while most of the nexers are new players which camp. Close combat zoom. Now in real close combat you're dead with sg against GOOD nex user. anyway, haven't seen you making 20 kill spree with sg.

tZork has vaporized ^RAlien, tZork has made 20 frags in a row

Now the problem lies there:
If both players shoot at the same time being close to each other. nex user wins. Why? Just because sg sec fire doesn't shoot when you're dead. Both weapons are hitscan weapons.


Back to original question, the problem with hagar and crylink is not that they are powerful or smth, but because you don't need to skill to use them. In addition, they seriously IMPAIR vision and in tightly packed environment like hydronex it becomes annoying to play.
Anyway, div0 fixed crylink and made it less spam weapon. HUGE thanks. I would agree wiht following hagar rockets but they shouldn't be able to change direction very much. Will be a very good weapon against campers.

Alt fire mode switches back to prev weapon. I'd hate to lose that. Seriously. The "laser" needs a new name though. What it does has absolutely nothing to do with lasers. I'd like to call it an "impulse gun" or something.

I'll repeat. You can use additional key on your mouse or keyboard. No need to use sec fire for things, which can be achieved in other ways. Sec fire could be used for more innovative movement, kamikaze, shield, whatever you would want. Personally I find sec laser fire - prev weapon is simply an affection.

Alt fire isn't empty; it makes the rocket blow up. That's a very very useful trigger.

What I've said previously is sec fire without firstly releasing rocket primary fire. Sole sec fire could release huge slow rocket in arc format, similarly to flackcannon sec fire in UT. Nothing will change in sec fire when you've already used prim fire and released a rocket.

How about replacing it with a baseball bat? No range, but packs a huge wallop (one hit = kill?) at very close range — at least from behind. Yes, players get close enough to do that. I know I do. Has to be a relatively slow weapon though.

Melee weapon should be introduced on is own and not replace sg. I don't care how it would look like, more like how it will work in game. Be it baseball bat, saber, ninja sword, tazer. Replacing sg is a bad idea.

[ai]

Yeah, YOU kill players which are wielding nex. You don't mention the quality of the players. It easy for you cause you KNOW how to play while most of the nexers are new players which camp. Close combat zoom. Now in real close combat you're dead with sg against GOOD nex user. anyway, haven't seen you making 20 kill spree with sg.

tZork has vaporized ^RAlien, tZork has made 20 frags in a row

Of course it's a lot harder to get a killing spree of 20 with the shotgun compared to the nex. For such obvious reasons that I'm not even gonna bring them up.
Making this statement adds no weight, it has nothing to do with anything, thus rendering it totally useless.

The Crylink is almost but perfect now. Playing on Greens and I believe Lazy Dog too, you notice how well accustomed it has become. It's not too powerful but yet it's still very useful in certain situations.
Before you almost couldn't get away from a Crylinker, and way back you couldn't get stuck in a Crylinker both of those situations are no linger an issue.

Shotgun is also very good. I kill people left and right with it. I'm happy that you're able to spawn with such a good weapon. Unlike Quake 3 spawn weapon.

[tZork]

Im not talking abt clueless nubbz. spend some time and learn to use the shotty, its super for close combat, no bull. if i had the stamina for it i could dig out countless examples from my demos where i kill skilled ppl wilding nex's. also. it IS a starter weapon, the nex is a "power weapon". if anything the nex should be more powerful in comparison

The hagar is a fancy ammo pick-up as far as im concerned. i tried, i really did, to get used to this one but i just cant make effective use of it. nor do i think i ever seen anyone do. sure its dmg/sec is high and you can gib a cornered dood or some poor nub with it fast enough. but in "real combat" the only thing its good for is spamming out a stand-off barrier. And yes it hurts visibility (for both the victim and the would be victor) allot.

Now with that said, next release will be able to support more then the 9 old guns. so there no need to remove one to add another.

[KillaGrunt]

Sweet moar gunz!