Requesting removal of weapon nr. 8 - Hagar

[[-z-]]

Sure, then we'll just remove that feature from the flag carrier so no one complains about him being too fast again

I think other things need to be thought out before this idea can ever go forward. Instead of asking divVerent every question along the way, why not design the basics, show him you thought it out and don't waste him time thinking about your problems?

"Dear sir, please waste 3 hours of your day trying to implement this half-baked idea. We'll (you'll) just have to fix all the errors along the way... which could result in many more hours beyond the original projection but who cares? This is my idea and it's awesome, I'm awesome, yeah."


Theory, diagrams, examples. Three things that show you've put real thought into an idea.

"Hello sir, I've had this wonderful idea I think can improve your game. Here's how I thought it out. Will you consider it and help me uncover any flaws in logic? Thanks for helping with this, you're awesome!"

[Aldius]

ok again true about the release thing, that might affect jumping and mess things up.

I think if this did work out, the 2 best options to come up for it so far are:

1) the charging begins if you continue to hold down the button after it fires; it then shoots again when you finally release the fire button ( i think thats how the little laser handgun in Halo 3 works, correct? )

2) the primary laser remains completely unchanged, but the charging laser would instead be placed on secondary fire.

I think that these ideas are both good, I personally wouldn't mind em. I think I finally get why Halo 3 does that to their charging laser handgun thing.

About the running around with full charge thing,
I think thats kinda one of the best parts about charging laser, is being able to prepare ahead of time, if you want, so u can be a bit more prepared for battle. Thats the whole idea I get from it on Mega-man, the part I loved about it. It sort of makes you feel like 1% braver or better prepared or something, ya know? Its like reloading a machine gun before you walk out from behind cover.

Lol so i think thats my fav. part, but i think one thing to answer that problem, like I said
before is to limit the charge capacity to to a reasonable amount. If you think about it, the laser it pretty small and weak in the first place, so maybe we could just let it get just to a maximum damage of .....60% of the amount of damage the nex does?
Thats just a random number, maybe the full charge could be the same damage as a nex shot, or maybe 1/4 damage is more like it. I havent tested yet, nor do i know the exact amount of a nex shot ( im guessing its near like 100 tho )

Another thing to prevent people running around full charge would be that its still not the only weapon in the game. its would just help you out a bit to balance the weakness of starting weapons. But I think obviously it should still be a bit easier to kill people faster with a picked up weapon, or else there would be no reason to pick up anything.

Well another thing like i said before, is maybe it should only really grow in radius of the blast, and the damage could just barely go up, maybe only double or go to 150% original laser damage at a full charge, but it could be huge so its harder to miss, ya know?

And then again maybe the size is stupid, so it stays almost the same size but rather grows dynamically in damage ( near to the nex shot ) but still is a weenie little blast that is easy to miss.
I know i would vote for more of the size growth idea, myself, but like i said before, maybe a little of both would be good.

Either way, i kinda want to be able to hold the charge, personally, but i think even that could be balanced into the game by the right limitations on it.

[/size]

[[-z-]]

The fact that you totally ignored my previous post aside, your idea is still considered off topic in this thread. Perhaps you should reread my previous post, give it some thought and think about how you'd like to represent it for serious consideration. Otherwise, you're just trying to sell keebler cookies to a bakery.

[MirceaKitsune]

I'm really pro for a change in the laser too and maybe a new firing type for it. Not that I'd have something against that then, but I think this thread is kind of going off-topic as the discussion is about the Hagar and ways to change / improve it. I'd love to hear more about the laser but I believe that would fit better in it's own topic if everyone else agrees. Would just love to hear more ideas and changes about this weapon for now...

[Sven]

Crylink and hagar should NOT go because for some player are this really good weapons and in the new version you can set the weapon priority
(but when the razor-disk shooter fron UT came and exchange one of them...joke -razor-disk shooter shouldnt exchange should add )

[halogene]

Sure, then we'll just remove that feature from the flag carrier so no one complains about him being too fast again

I think other things need to be thought out before this idea can ever go forward. Instead of asking divVerent every question along the way, why not design the basics, show him you thought it out and don't waste him time thinking about your problems?

"Dear sir, please waste 3 hours of your day trying to implement this half-baked idea. We'll (you'll) just have to fix all the errors along the way... which could result in many more hours beyond the original projection but who cares? This is my idea and it's awesome, I'm awesome, yeah."


Theory, diagrams, examples. Three things that show you've put real thought into an idea.

"Hello sir, I've had this wonderful idea I think can improve your game. Here's how I thought it out. Will you consider it and help me uncover any flaws in logic? Thanks for helping with this, you're awesome!"

I would consider at least the laser part of this thread rather a discussion between the players of the game than a request to implement it. Of course, the laser idea is off topic and should go into another thread. But that's another story. Why not discussing basic ideas and also discussing of how that would fit into the game? I mean, if you would have to think out every idea including every detail and drawing diagrams and such before you are allowed to post it for discussion who would come up with anything anymore?

Oh, and actually I wasn't asking divVerent in my post, I meant to ask the community. I just reread my post and noticed it was ambiguous in that way (sorry).

[[-z-]]

Why not discussing basic ideas and also discussing of how that would fit into the game? I mean, if you would have to think out every idea including every detail and drawing diagrams and such before you are allowed to post it for discussion who would come up with anything anymore?

I didn't say you had to do any of those things.

Theory, diagrams, examples. Three things that show you've put real thought into an idea.

I'm telling you what gets heard.

Half-baked, fly by the seat of your pants ideas burn out rather quickly. Putting more thought into ideas yourself before presenting them to developers gives them less to think about and helps your chances of getting them into the game.

Of course you can do what you want based on your own observations and assumptions. Maybe you'll be lucky enough to hit a home run by sparking interest with a random under-developed thought about something you'd like to see in the game... but statistically speaking, your chances are lower.

[halogene]

I didn't say you had to do any of those things.

But that's how I read your post, seriously. Maybe posting ideas to make them available for community (!) discussion and not yet for developer consideration should happen in another forum section than "Development"? Would that then be ok?

Because, if somebody has an idea that he/she considers good, I do not see nothing wrong with posting it to make it available for discussion. After all, it is important to get feedback on the general concept, whether the new feature or alteration of old features would be feasible and accepted by the community. What is the use of a well thought-out idea the impacts of which on gameplay are well researched, if the general concept of such idea is rejected by the community - because it just doesn't fit into the style of Nexuiz for example.

I would agree to the extent that it is nonsense to post ideas that obviously don't make any sense at all (like posting ideas about a MMORPG on this forum). I also agree that putting some thoughts into your ideas is a very important thing to do before you post them on a forum, the forum shouldn't become a brainstorm graveyard. However, I think a forum is a good place to exchange basic ideas and to develop them together with the community if the idea proves to be worth it.

[Rad Ished]

Resistance to Halogenes exquisitely executed rational argument technique is futile.
You will submit!

[halogene]

What? Thx, but I didn't intend anybody to submit to my argument technique. Arguing for the sake of "winning" a discussion isn't my thing - I'll leave that to others

Anyway, this thread is really hard to keep at its topic, seemingly (at least for me, but I'll get better, I promise). So, let's hear some more about the hagar! Currently the two ideas that came up here and that leave the hagar "hagar-ish" concern the secondary fire mode and are, if I am not mistaken,

1) Homing projectiles, if the first one hits (not just one of the row and the next ones follow)
2) more bounces

I like both ideas regarding their concept. For me, the current secondary fire mode is useful but not different enough from primary fire mode, so I'd say it would be nice to enhance it. The enhancement should, for the sake of balance, lead to some sort of reduction of its usability - for example by slowing down the rockets even more or by letting the secondary fire mode use additional ammo (like two per shot).

The reduction of speed may be useful for the homing idea, as that would make it possible to dodge the missiles if you are fast enough, though that depends as well on the sharpness of the angle the rockets are able to steer (which should not be too sharp).

Using extra ammo could be interesting for the second idea, though it might lead to the behaviour of ammo-grapping if the secondary fire would become too useful. I would say one additional bounce for the hagar should be enough.

Personally I like the homing idea best, as it requires a lot of skill to hit with the first projectile of your shot. The second idea is risky, as it most probably leads to people spamming around with it.

Another idea for the secondary fire mode would be to leave the bounce as it is and to slightly increase the splash radius of the projectile explosion. This could be paired with a speed reduction, maybe also with a reduction of the damage dealt in total to avoid heavy splash spamming. That way shooting around the corner would become more useful than it is now, making the secondary fire mode more different from the primary.

Just to be extra clear on that: this is NOT a request to implement this but rather a question towards the community of what people may think of this idea and if I maybe have overlooked some essential thing regarding balance and such.