Tenshihan's Newest Sound-Releases:

[Tenshihan]

Thank you

You're welcome. I also just uploaded the "combined-gib" sound (still in full stereo) for your reference to know what those two sounds - come out like when mixed together.

[divVerent]

That should settle it, I checked it out. Was it a melon? Who's cleaning up for you?

Looks like we'll not require Tenshihan to sign the legal document I spoke about, and the sounds should be fine.

[divVerent]

As for leileilol's arguments on IRC:

[11:08:45] <leilei> that armor1.wav i've heard as a grenade bounce from some game before

Certainly not. armor1 looks like anything but a viable grenade bounce sound. Get real.

[11:29:29] <leilei> i don't think he's aware of the gpl license of nexuiz
[11:29:36] <leilei> i think he thinks it's some freeware game

He obviously is, and did provide valid sources for gib.wav.

[11:29:56] <MrBougo> I read that last line from his last post
[11:30:09] <MrBougo> where he says he holds copyright but permitted use for nexuiz
[11:30:19] <leilei> yeah thats screaming non-Free there
[11:30:22] <MrBougo> if nexuiz uses that, it must be gpl, so anyone else can then use it?
[11:30:27] <leilei> no
[11:30:29] <MrBougo> oh well
[11:30:41] <leilei> i somehow missed reading that line
[11:30:50] <leilei> but yeah that line right there definitely deals the seal
[11:30:54] <leilei> 'permitted' is not committed

Of course he holds copyright. In some legislations, he can't even give it to us if he wanted (e.g. in Germany - copyright is ALWAYS held by the original author, however, many of the sub-rights associated with copyright can be transferred). And he did permit usage under the GPL, which does mean other projects can use them.

[11:36:34] <m0rfar> Yeah, I can remember some of the sounds are similar to sounds in other games...

Of course. There's just so many ways a shotgun can sound, after all. And maybe Tenshihan used a real shotgun, and some other game uses sounds recorded from that same brand and type of shotgun. Sure they'll sound alike. Or, some sounds are made using melons or other fruit being smashed. There's only so many ways to smash a melon.

[11:40:59] <leilei> "Personal requests? (REMEMBER, I RESPOND WELL TO POSITIVE ATTITUDE, AND DO NOT RESPOND AT ALL TO NEGATIVITY) So be polite!"
[11:41:03] <leilei> this guy IS a baby apparently

This is disproved, and Tenshihan DID answer even to leileilol. This line in the txt file very obviously does not reflect Tenshihan's attitude, but the NNs' attitude.

[11:55:42] <MrBougo> isn't it possible to do some filterwork to get a different waveform sounding the same?

EQs change the waveform's hull quite much. However, divide the sounds up in sections of "high frequency" and "low frequency". That should stay invariant when EQing, or chorusing, or doing any other filter that works in frequency space. And about no usable filters work in amplitude space (apart from adding noise, and dynamics/volume changes).

[11:58:10] <leilei> he really didn't do the former
[11:58:20] <leilei> or i'd have .aup files on my desktop by now

Not always do these files contain all data. I have yet to learn how to do image processing without using the "flatten image" operator before doing global operations (like sharpen), as these WILL look different and wrong when applied to the layers one by one. Same goes for audio filters that aren't linear maps (e.g. dynamics compression/expansion) - when using them, you have to "flatten" your sound file first, or it'll turn out wrong.

Therefore, such project files not being available is the usual case, and a flaw of the editing applications, and does not hint to a violation of a license. Basically, I am saying: most applications's formats for storing audio or image "projects" are insufficient to provide full source, especially including Audacity's and GIMP's. However, it would be mad to assume you cannot make free (as in GPL) sound files or textures using Audacity or GIMP. Therefore, the "source requirement" simply does not apply to such files.

Of course, this legal situation of audio and image files "usually simply HAVING no notion of source code" may change when applications adopt file formats that allow FULL non-destructive editing. But that has yet to happen. In case of image editing, it would e.g. require the file format to store information about which part of the image has been filtered in which way. XCF does not store all that! You can't make a layer that "sharpens what is below", which essentially would be the required feature.

[12:06:16] <leilei> anyway if this tenshishan gets away in the end, nexuiz will earn a bad reputation probably

First of all, the sounds are likely genuine, especially with the proof we have now.

Secondly, negative PR is PR too, and it may actually let the player count RISE.

[Tenshihan]

That should settle it, I checked it out. Was it a melon? Who's cleaning up for you?

Looks like we'll not require Tenshihan to sign the legal document I spoke about, and the sounds should be fine.

LOL - no melons chief, ...just my mouth full of water.

If you need me to sign anything - send me a PM so we can discuss how to go about it. Anything so I don't have to go through this kind of tribulation again.

I'm going to sleep now, ...i'm still sick with the Flu.

Cheers,

~Tenshihan

[Alien]

Yeah, openarena probably gets LOTS of POSITIVE attitude, smashing ioquake devs and arguing about textures at freegamedev.

[divVerent]

Well, in my opinion, Tenshihan's sounds are clean. But if anyone wants to see him sign that thing to clear up the issue, we can arrange that. I am familiar with German law, and although not identical to US law, copyright is very similar across countries which have signed the Berne Convention, so it is very likely that this will be a strong enough "agreement" to stand in cour to defend Alientrap from possible lawsuits and shift the liability to Tenshihan, who is convinced that his sounds are genuine (and he, having made them, should know best).

[Alien]

Here: http://ffmpeg.mplayerhq.hu/shame.html (and nobody happens anyway, this shame page is years old). I can't understand who would make a lawsuit against ALIENTRAP because of sound file. You all are REALLY out of your minds if you think so. At the worst case, you'll be contacted by some corporation attorney with threatening letter ordering to remove the copyright infringening materials. That's all.
Imagine eff headline: open source game company AT was brought into custody because it contained "supposedly" proprietary bleh.wav sound infringing rights of Vomit Limited (remington), who has patented vomitting (shotgun) sound in 2005. Oh, noes. That's ridiculous.
Another example, who would be responsible in community driven project as Inkscape? Infringing content would be removed. End of story.

[divVerent]

[18:14:19] <leileilol> looks like i lost this one
[18:14:31] <leileilol> nexuiz will forever be tainted with non-Free-ness
[18:14:37] <leileilol> have fun on my ignore list div0
[18:15:01] <@div0> huh? what did _I_ do to you?
[18:15:05] <@div0> but well, ignore me if you want
[18:15:09] <@div0> Tenshihan had provided proof
[18:15:25] <@div0> what more can you want

Looks like leileilol is nothing but a small child. When he still used the nick CheapAlert, he wasn't THAT childish...

but if leileilol starts speading this on other websites and disregarding the proof by Tenshihan, he'll soon get banned on these sites. So much is sure.

[divVerent]

Here: http://ffmpeg.mplayerhq.hu/shame.html (and nobody happens anyway, this shame page is years old). I can't understand who would make a lawsuit against ALIENTRAP because of sound file. You all are REALLY out of your minds if you think so. At the worst case, you'll be contacted by some corporation attorney with threatening letter ordering to remove the copyright infringening materials. That's all.
Imagine eff headline: open source game company AT was brought into custody because it contained "supposedly" proprietary bleh.wav sound infringing rights of Vomit Limited (remington), who has patented vomitting (shotgun) sound in 2005. Oh, noes. That's ridiculous.
Another example, who would be responsible in community driven project as Inkscape? Infringing content would be removed. End of story.

The thing is that ANYONE using the sounds could get sued for it, not just AT. There's larger projects out there with more potential to "sue money out of", you know.

[leileilol]

disregarding the proof by Tenshihan

that 'proof' doesn't even relate to the suspicious sounds in question. Also, using visual comparison of altered waveforms has absolutely no basis - it takes an ear to hear it out. For christ's sake, it's a SOUND.