We NEED more developers!

[take_this_cup_of_poison]

In the opensource world there is no diffrence between a dev and a user except what they have contributed. Div etc were once players but then got into coding, media creation, etc... so to say that the community is not resposible for the development of the game is a lie. The game is developed by the community, since the community does not wish to contribute to nexuiz nexuiz will no longer be developed.

To be perfectly honest, it's not the community's responsibility to keep the project going.

You echo the opinion of the vast majority of nexuiz users it seems.
Nexuiz will die by that.

[[-z-]]

But again, scare tactics aren't what build communities. You're attitude is aiding the problem, not the solution.

You campaigned for a week which is quite helpful but don't get so discourage if it doesn't result in instant gratification. Open source is about building relationships, with your users, with the devs, with other projects and potentials.

No one's going to want to build a relationship with a person that consistently attacks the community out of a lack of patience.

There are better ways to motivate people. Lighten up.

[ai]

In the opensource world there is no diffrence between a dev and a user except what they have contributed. Div etc were once players but then got into coding, media creation, etc... so to say that the community is not resposible for the development of the game is a lie. The game is developed by the community, since the community does not wish to contribute to nexuiz nexuiz will no longer be developed.

To be perfectly honest, it's not the community's responsibility to keep the project going.

You echo the opinion of the vast majority of nexuiz users it seems.
Nexuiz will die by that.

No, what I said is the truth. It's not the community's responsibility to help out. Open source projects allow and invite people to help out but not force a responsibility to the user to contribute, that wouldn't be 'open' anymore in such case. Does Linux force me to contribute to their projects just cause I use their OS:es? If the answer is 'Yes' then I have TOTALLY misunderstood the open source community.
I have yet to receive an email from the devs over at Ubuntu and Linux Mint that says: "It has come to our attention that you use our product that of which we develop. You are as of this moment obliged to help out and contribute. If you do not oblige you must seize to use the product immediately!"

I'll say it again just to make it clear: Open source projects ALLOW and INVITE the community to help out, NOT force responsibility. That is also one of the reasons why there are words such as 'developers' and 'community' in the open source world. If you do not agree with this then I'm a developer of every open source project out there without me knowing it.
I hope you understand this a bit better now.

[divVerent]

You obviously are misunderstanding it, or phrasing it wrongly.

"True" open source projects are projects developed BY THE COMMUNITY. And Nexuiz should be like that.

Linux is different, it is developed by big companies like IBM or Red Hat. Only a minor fraction of the kernel developers does NOT contribute as part of their employment. So Linux CAN survive without help from the "community" of users, simply because it is still backed by multiple big companies.

Nexuiz is NOT that way, but it is a true community project which is backed by no company. I am getting no single cent for my involvement, while most kernel, Firefox, OpenOffice etc. developers do. Without support of the community, it'd simply die out.

Actually, it is the other way round - Nexuiz is actually PAID FOR by some of the developers, e.g. hosting costs money, and the donations far from suffice to pay for that - and we don't even have unlimited traffic, so we can't post beta builds or releases directly on alientrap.org but have to use the (nowadays) ad-ridden nagsite Sourceforge or my server standing at university for that.

[ai]

Yeah, I know all that, and we're basically saying the same thing there Div, or at least mean it. And I know the community develops Nexuiz (that's a given). All I'm saying is that, even though it is the community who develops these (open source) games, there is no responsibility to the community to contribute. Thus talking bad about the community, blaming them and getting angry at them is not the right way to go. (That's actually at the same level as that one guy coming here and demanding that Alientrap should create an MMORPG for him and dissing Alientrap when they don't want to do that.)

Btw, Linux was just one example which I knew was far away from what Nexuiz is (and possibly a bad one), that's why I also mentioned other open source games, such as Warsow, Open Arena etc. As they are more to the path of Nexuiz. So I change it instead to this: If you download and play Warsow (and enjoy playing it), are you obliged to contribute?

[divVerent]

You did not understand. The COMMUNITY (seen as a single entity) is obligated to contribute - the INDIVIDUALS are not.

In the end it means that it suffices of SOME of the community contribute.

And yes, Warsow is much more active in development, mainly because they have good artists which does spark more interest in coders too. They really gain a lot of support because their artwork is not licensed under a free license, because most artists refuse to give content under a license that allows others to take their art without asking such as the GPL.

[ai]

In my head, as I see it, a community are the individuals. When I hear community I see people, not a single entity. That's just me though and it may differ from the actual 'technical' term. But an individual that comprises of the community not contributing is still part of the community.

Lool, oh well. I think we've not only killed the horse but we've also beaten the dead horse a couple of times too, with this conversation. There's nothing more to be gained from it.
The bottom line:
We all want people to help out with Nexuiz.
Mike's way to go about and trying to get people involved is wrong
I'm hungry and
I'm going to the store to buy some stuff.

[take_this_cup_of_poison]

If the community helps then Nexuiz continues in development and lives.
If the community refuses to help then Nexuiz does not continue in development and dies.
.: The community is responsible for the fate of Nexuiz.

In my head, as I see it, a community are the individuals. When I hear community I see people, not a single entity. That's just me though and it may differ from the actual 'technical' term. But an individual that comprises of the community not contributing is still part of the community.

Lool, oh well. I think we've not only killed the horse but we've also beaten the dead horse a couple of times too, with this conversation. There's nothing more to be gained from it.

Copping out of the conversation by declaring "Mission Accomplished".

The bottom line:
We all want people to help out with Nexuiz.

We all say we want people to help out with Nexuiz. Very few of us decide to be those people. That is the problem. We all want things but most of us _Refuse_ to lend a hand. We have One One ONE ___ONE___ code dev. ONE!!!!

Mike's way to go about and trying to get people involved is wrong

Ah, Emailing people in the field informing them about Nexuiz is the wrong way to go aboot it? I agree, it hasn't done much. It would be better if I made something for nexuiz like code or models, but I'm similar to the rest of the players... no contributions but tons of suggestions! (and demands).

I'm hungry and
I'm going to the store to buy some stuff.

You could buy some soda, let it process, and then contribute to one of the wonderful community driven threads in the general forum. One about "1000 something about liquid expulsion countdown".

I hope they don't make a thread about processing solid foods next.


Div: I've collected up, modified, and made a bunch of GPL textures (aswell as other opensource (real opensource, not "non commercial" stuff the artists elsewhere in other projects "contribute**") textures under https://cat2.optus.nu/cat2/media.html#NEXUIZMAPS . I've started to make some bumpmaps for some of the textures I created. There's really an OSS texture for anything one would need now I think... and since the egyptian textures were GPLd... well nexuiz will certainly be on par with UT one atleast in terms of variety.

The more textures are GPLd the more variants of them there are... and the more they are used for the basis of other textures and textures for models etc... I think we're pulling ahead of warsow and alien arena in the texture department. The maps of nexuiz certainly are better in quality.

**I don't think if someone contributes proprietary, non-commercial, class-based-warfare-licensed media... well how is that contributing?

[take_this_cup_of_poison]

If the community helps then Nexuiz continues in development and lives.
If the community refuses to help then Nexuiz does not continue in development and dies.
.: The community is responsible for the fate of Nexuiz.

In my head, as I see it, a community are the individuals. When I hear community I see people, not a single entity. That's just me though and it may differ from the actual 'technical' term. But an individual that comprises of the community not contributing is still part of the community.

Lool, oh well. I think we've not only killed the horse but we've also beaten the dead horse a couple of times too, with this conversation. There's nothing more to be gained from it.

Copping out of the conversation by declaring "Mission Accomplished".

The bottom line:
We all want people to help out with Nexuiz.

We all say we want people to help out with Nexuiz. Very few of us decide to be those people. That is the problem. We all want things but most of us _Refuse_ to lend a hand. We have One One ONE ___ONE___ code dev. ONE!!!!

Mike's way to go about and trying to get people involved is wrong

Ah, Emailing people in the field informing them about Nexuiz is the wrong way to go aboot it? I agree, it hasn't done much. It would be better if I made something for nexuiz like code or models, but I'm similar to the rest of the players... no contributions but tons of suggestions! (and demands).

I'm hungry and
I'm going to the store to buy some stuff.

You could buy some soda, let it process, and then contribute to one of the wonderful community driven threads in the general forum. One about "1000 something about liquid expulsion countdown".

I hope they don't make a thread about processing solid foods next.


Div: I've collected up, modified, and made a bunch of GPL textures (aswell as other opensource (real opensource, not "non commercial" stuff the artists elsewhere in other projects "contribute**") textures under https://cat2.optus.nu/cat2/media.html#NEXUIZMAPS . I've started to make some bumpmaps for some of the textures I created. There's really an OSS texture for anything one would need now I think... and since the egyptian textures were GPLd... well nexuiz will certainly be on par with UT one atleast in terms of variety.

The more textures are GPLd the more variants of them there are... and the more they are used for the basis of other textures and textures for models etc... I think we're pulling ahead of warsow and alien arena in the texture department. The maps of nexuiz certainly are better in quality.

**I don't think if someone contributes proprietary, non-commercial, class-based-warfare-licensed media... well how is that contributing?

[GreEn`mArine]

1st, you might remove your double post.
2nd, what ai meant with "Mike's way to go about and trying to get people involved is wrong" wasn't you sending the emails (that was a good thing regardless how much success it has/had) but you griping all the time. For me you start repeating yourself, and you even started to spread that negative attitude among other threads which gets annoying. Please no more posts from you that the individuals are so lazy and (thats how it reads) want nexuiz to die. We all know that you think this, no need to repeat anymore. However, I think you will repeat it anyway.