I made another song for Nexuiz (& a new one - 15/4)

[Alien]

Even then, Nexuiz would have to go out of all the Linux distributions, as they do not consider CC a free license for many reasons.

http://packages.debian.org/sid/sauerbraten-data ??? (and this is Debian)

If you want to produce new content with the sauerbraten engine, you have to be aware that the source code may be Open Source, but the game and the media it consist of have their individual licenses and copyrights. << http://www.sauerbraten.org/README.html

[divVerent]

"Package: sauerbraten-data (0.0.20080620-1) [non-free]"

non-free means: NEVER on any official Debian DVDs. ONLY available via download, and ONLY when explicitly enabling the non-free repository.

[Alien]

Yes, my mistake, I've assumed debian is still following rms philosophy of having no non gpl'ed data except firmware binary blobs. Seems I was wrong.

[ai]

So what ever happened to this thread? What's the conclusion? Could Nexuiz use this music? I'd hate for these to just get buried and never surfaced.

[blkrbt]

So what ever happened to this thread? What's the conclusion? Could Nexuiz use this music? I'd hate for these to just get buried and never surfaced.

Agreed...

[morfar]

If the music has license GPL(v2) I can include them to Nexuiz SVN
If you have source files that's good too.

[Rog]

Hi guys! I haven't played AT yet, just downloaded it... I have some background writing C code and other languages and I'm going to start looking at the source-code. Maybe I can help with dev.

****
With regards to the posted song:

I did not see a link for an updated song... so I don't know if you already fixed these things.

I downloaded the two at the top...

The background sound was pretty good, except for the flaws noted by others. The percussions sounded backwards. It starts with a light beat then hit louder or stronger beats.. I got the feeling from them as if I was tripping over objects and about to fall forward on my face.

However, you did mention that the ogg version was not equivalent to the others and that it was an early draft. Could you please post updates? If an mp3 turns out good, could you post an mp3 for checking out?

The 2nd song with no percussion was acceptable! It can use some polishing but it's good.

****

with regards to looping -- I believe what people were trying to say is not so much "how" to make a song loop in software as how to make a song end such that it blends with starting over.

****

with regards to copyright (copyleft?) -- Step out of the box of the copyright question.. it's a problem like any coding problem or anything other problem in life.. look out it from outside the problem not from inside. (inside has light restrictions...) What does a full commercial release of a game do for it's sound / music? If a popular group lends one of it's songs to a commercial game?

Try to extrapolate from that point of view a bit... It might be as simple as the author of the music extends copyright use "for use with app 2.x, but not for derivatives" (if that restriction were desired) or "for use with app 2.x and full derivatives where the GPL is still in effect for the entire product, it is immediately void otherwise." Keep in mind that if you said "but not for derivatives", that doesn't mean that when app 3.x comes out you can't say the same thing all over again "for app 3.x but not derivatives"... etc.. by 3.x we may not be interested in the song anymore anyway.

In general -- copyright is for creative products, patent is for engineered products. A core question one may ask about software is -- is it engineered or is it creative/written? This is hugely debatable ... I really believe software is creative / written and should NOT be patented. Microsoft and pretty much all of the major companies disagree. But their primary use of it is to keep competition out at key points in time. They couldn't care less who owns what as long as money pours into their pockets. (this is not an attack on them, just a recognition of the situation)

Anyway.. I'm no expert at copyrights.. Just trying to jog up another perspective.

[divVerent]

with regards to copyright (copyleft?) -- Step out of the box of the copyright question.. it's a problem like any coding problem or anything other problem in life.. look out it from outside the problem not from inside. (inside has light restrictions...) What does a full commercial release of a game do for it's sound / music? If a popular group lends one of it's songs to a commercial game?

Try to extrapolate from that point of view a bit... It might be as simple as the author of the music extends copyright use "for use with app 2.x, but not for derivatives" (if that restriction were desired) or "for use with app 2.x and full derivatives where the GPL is still in effect for the entire product, it is immediately void otherwise." Keep in mind that if you said "but not for derivatives", that doesn't mean that when app 3.x comes out you can't say the same thing all over again "for app 3.x but not derivatives"... etc.. by 3.x we may not be interested in the song anymore anyway.

Although it makes sense, exactly that is not even possible for Nexuiz. Nexuiz is under the GPL 2, so any content within it has to be under the GPL 2 too. No way to change that.

And the GPL explicitly allows others to take the stuff without asking - as long as the new project is still under the GPL, of course. So a "not for derivatives" style license is simply not possible for Nexuiz.

So yes, media for free software also needs a license that is much more free than media for commercial software. Commercial software does NOT allow others to take their stuff without asking.

[ai]

So if, blkrbt released these under GPL v2 could they be included in Nexuiz or do you need some kind of source files? If yes, what kind of source files. I know this has been debated and many different opinions. Would a lossless format work (.wav or whatever other there are)?
Does Tenshihans sounds have source included? If so, what kind of source is that, then blkrbt can just make it the same way. If not, then blkrbt shouldn't be the only one forced to release source, then Tenshihans sounds would need to be removed as well. All that is need is to prove that these do in fact belong to blkrbt (that he made these).

Note: No hard feelings about Tenshihan, I love his sounds and do not wish for them to be removed. Just trying to prove a point here. If you Tenshihan happen read this: 'You're great '

[divVerent]

Tenshihan provided source on request in the past, so in case sounds need source, that'd be fine.

As for the music by blkrbt - well, IMHO a MIDI file that contains key and time signatures (that is, one that gets a legible score and can be easily printed out) and every single note is perfectly fine. Also, as the file is much smaller than the ogg file, it should really be included in some way (while on the other hand, tenshihan's source sound files are quite large, so "source on request" makes sense there). Of course, if he has the MIDI file, he can also email it out on request.

However, one thing to keep in mind: read the licenses of the audio samples that have been used. Tenshihan made entirely his own samples (and proved it in the leileilol discussion), so these are safe. Commercial vendors of sample collections however do NOT allow distributing them - or works using them - under a license that allows others to request source. So such collections can't be used.

Whether the project file including all the samples is required as source or whether the MIDI suffices is not known until now, no court has decided it yet. Ideally, I think, AT should get the MIDI, and provide it to people asking for source. In case it becomes the usual legal opinion that the project file and the samples are required, blkrbt should keep these at home. It'd be perfectly fine if he burns them to a DVD and puts it in a safe place (so he can make copies of it on request).

In my opinion, the sounds require no "source" at all, as they are not "generated" from anything, while music does have some notion of source code - namely, the one generally accepted by musicians. The musical score. Notes and stuff. But this is not necessarily how a court would rule, so one should play as safe as possible.