New weaponmodels

[ai]

then he should have said it was the tag seeker model (or say it now) but not merge the two weapons.

No one is talking about merging. Just instead of giving Hagar the new model, give it to the TAG instead and let the Hagar have it's old model back (people are actually for this, some really like that old model).
Plus it would make sense having the new model for TAG especially with secondary fire.

[tundramagi]

then he should have said it was the tag seeker model (or say it now) but not merge the two weapons.

No one is talking about merging. Just instead of giving Hagar the new model, give it to the TAG instead and let the Hagar have it's old model back (people are actually for this, some really like that old model).
Plus it would make sense having the new model for TAG especially with secondary fire.

Could he add an upper handle to the new-TAG model then if it is to be such? I really like how the current TAG is a lower, bulkier, thing you need to carry (can't fire from sholder). If he would add the TAG handle and trigger (or similar) to his new model that would be great.

[FraNcoTirAdoR]

Well, i would dare to personally come up with the idea of merging the hagar and tag, and the reason is because we have 2 underused models, with 1-1 technically not too usable secondary fire mode. So they could be merged into a new hagar, thats primary is the current TAGs primary, and the secondary is the old hagars primary. And the model could be the 2.5s new hagar. It could shoot 3 (stronger) homing rockets from the 3 barrel it has, so it could also make sense. This would result a strong and very usable weapon for close and midle range. Im not sure it worth to have another weapon reasoning 2 semi used weapons, it would also be more newbie friendly to get know fewer weapons. Just compare current hagars primary with hlac primary, and also with TAGs secondary. The difference is not too big. Maybe its time for some weapon optimization. that would result a weapon deserving the placement of #8 in the arsenal

[Alien]

/me likes what was written above

[Fisume!]

indeed.

[FraNcoTirAdoR]

Thats cool to hear, and the nicest thing that it requires NO new code at all
Please if someone could set this new hagar together fast with copying the proper blocks between the two quakeC files, upload it for testing, I just checked out the seekers file, and its different from what i got used to (other weapons have seperated blocks for pirmary and secondary, this one looks pretty mixed-up)

Originally I was holding this for my "weapon feature recommendation and optimization" thread that im willing to open once 2.5 is out and stable (i have some cool and unique ideas), but i think that weapon balance is so awesome right now in this game, that only these 2 weapons features are breaking it a little, so we could perfect it.
Also I know there is only about 1-2 weeks left until the release, but dont forget that these weapon features are already balanced, so its just a port.

[Chubby]

The Mortar is just sweet. Electro is awsome, hagar... is fine, I don't use it anyway. Shotgun, nice, but not really as I expected.

[Xeno]

Are weapons necessarily limited to 2 modes? Would it be possible to have secondary fire switch primary fire between 3 or more modes?

(It would be interesting too if weapon models could have "attachments" that enabled modes, but that's probably more complicated than anyone would be willing to code right now.)

I'm not sure that I like Franco's idea though. The hagar secondary fire is useful around corners sometimes and the tag seeker's secondary fire is useful at close range. Although it fits the new hagar model, the tag seeker's primary fire would make the most sense as an additional mode of the RL but that would really require multi-mode weapons which would probably be too drastic for most people (and if it's not already possible with the existing code then there's probably little interest in implementing it).

[tZork]

"secondary" could switch between many modes, yes. i played around a bit with this, but i diffident really like the mechanic. it feels clumsy ingame, specially when there enough modes to make it interesting (3+).

Tags secondary is designed to counter incoming missiles, specially those homing ones from another tag its use are kinda questionable tough since the tag is a overall infective weapon and the homing rockets are to dumb to be a real problem to shake. btw, the tag was originally designed as a replacement for the hagar. it had 3 modes in that incarnation tough, primary-hagar like, fire tag and flac. the seeking rockets where smarter too.

[FraNcoTirAdoR]

Are weapons necessarily limited to 2 modes? Would it be possible to have secondary fire switch primary fire between 3 or more modes?

(It would be interesting too if weapon models could have "attachments" that enabled modes, but that's probably more complicated than anyone would be willing to code right now.)

I'm not sure that I like Franco's idea though. The hagar secondary fire is useful around corners sometimes and the tag seeker's secondary fire is useful at close range. Although it fits the new hagar model, the tag seeker's primary fire would make the most sense as an additional mode of the RL but that would really require multi-mode weapons which would probably be too drastic for most people (and if it's not already possible with the existing code then there's probably little interest in implementing it).

Well, i also like the idea itself, having that switch between modes, but im not really sure new gamers coming into nexuiz for some quick arcade-like fun would like to learn about 30-40 fire modes for the weapons alltogether. (if anyone can make up that many REALLY unique mode, truly deserves the Nobel-price) Also this would break weapon combinations and the access to the features would take some time, that im not sure all would appriciate during the heat of the fight. BUT I truly support this idea to make an universal weapon for nexuiz with different fire modes (4-5), that are toggleable, but because of the toggle not making it usable in combinations, just like camping rifle, (Maybe a BFG?)

You pointed out that hagars secondary is useful around corners, there are 2 things i would like to point out about that: first, the ammo consumation, and the low damage results its only usable if you use up tons of ammo, while standing in relatively one place spamming a corner with the most precious ammo type (rocketlauncher and mortar needs it too). Second, we already have so many cornerweapons, I mean why do we need crylink, electro, hagar and mortar to shoot around corner into the misterious void?

The TAGs secondary is also a feature that i think noone would miss, it is meant to work as an anti-rocket, but the problem is that on a NORMAL map (not a giga-mega-huge, relatively empty one) you just take a close corner and you already escaped TAGs primary rockets. If its shot from distance you terminate them with rocketlauncher before they reach you. And it doesnt protect against rocket missiles either.