Better default config

[Waterlaz]

Nah... messing up the source code I think I could've made the camera look from the gun even now.

[C.Brutail]

I warn you, you might get unplayable results, as you'll see right through the smoke trails

[Bundy]

To the topic .. I think the nexuiz CFG is just as every 3Dshooter CFG. I dont see a need for a change. People who like to change that will just do it ...

I really prefer Nexuiz's way over Q3A's, as it's not lying.

thats ok and maybe the nexuiz way is not lying .. but the crosshair is lying, read next! Also in Q3, it doesnt work at every spot in the map. It seems to be a "known bug" in some maps. You can shot through some walls (1mm through the wall) at some spots where you cant see the enemy.

As far as I know, rockets tend to come out of rocket launchers and not out of eyes. Case closed.

Thats ok, too. But really, If you aim with the nex (or any other weapon .. ) 1mm-1cm above a wall, you will hit the wall. Why? I dont get it. Thats something which has to be fixed. It just has to be precise, meaning: hit where the crosshair aims at. So please fix that! The crosshair shows in some spots NOT where you aim at. And this is just not right! If I aim on the ground under me and hit the wall, whats the point of the crosshair in that spot? If you would do it in reality, it would be hard to hit your legs if you aim at something else ... (well, maybe i could do it, but not somebody who is used in using weapons as i am in using nexgun in nexuiz :>)

Overall, you cant shot at every target you can see in some spots. And if the shots come out of the weapon, you should be able to hit it like in reality (at least with the nex, as it doesnt have a "big" projectile, like the rocket!)

[Ed]

Thats ok, too. But really, If you aim with the nex (or any other weapon .. ) 1mm-1cm above a wall, you will hit the wall. Why?

Because the wall is in the way. It should be no other way as it'll encourage camping. Camping bad.

It just has to be precise, meaning: hit where the crosshair aims at. So please fix that!

It does not need 'fixing', other games which shoot from the eye need fixing. There is also a cvar for a floating crosshair which points along the line of fire but I've forgotten what it is now, it's a Darkplaces default.

Making aim so perfect is bad for gameplay. Someone running freely in game should always have an advantage over someone camping behind a wall, it encourages good gameplay.

[GreEn`mArine]

well, this is clearly a discussion where arguments from players coming from a competitive background against coders who are looking for a project I'd just call now "lets convert nexuiz into a virtual-reality game" or players who prefer realism as well.

Players from a competitive background do want precision at the costs of realism. It doesn't have to look right (see rail beam in Quake3 going through edges of the wall), or doesn't have to be realistic (rockets coming out of your eye). The other party (that I don't understand) doesn't want that, and both parties are able to come up with several more or less sound arguments.

When we have a look at the past, we will learn this: both parties have strong opinions, and do not care (i.e. do not WANT to care, also applies to me) about the opinions of the other party. This happened also in the 2 other major games, such as UT(2KX) and Quake 3/4. The solution was pretty simple: split the community. There is a good reason why there are mods like Quake 3 CPMA/OSP, Q4Max or UT-Comp. They implemented features for the competitive gamers, and split the community on purpose.

For all the years I've been trying and fighting with the time I have had available to avoid this, as I'd rather have such features implemented officially in Nexuiz (this is a OSS game after all). Also, as one of the persons who have big influence on the ladder/tourney server configs, I've avoided all the time to modify elements/variables compared to the game defaults that are critical for the game, or I made them votable. And last but not least you know the outcome: the tourney mod used in v2.4 was completely included into the game.

The reason why I do this is that I don't want any further splits in the community, it is already small enough.

However, about this discussion: it looks funny because the parties are trying to disable the arguments of the other side using a similar structure, e.g. "the game lies <-> the crosshair lies". That that this would get us anywhere. But what I know is the the coders, pardon coder, of the game are on the side of "virtual-reality" party. I hope that I can help the situation with some coding, but we'll see...

[Mr. Bougo]

As far as I know, rockets tend to come out of rocket launchers and not out of eyes. Case closed.

Crosshair: thing that shows where projectiles would be shot at.
(...)

(...)
But really, If you aim with the nex (or any other weapon .. ) 1mm-1cm above a wall, you will hit the wall. Why? I dont get it. Thats something which has to be fixed. It just has to be precise, meaning: hit where the crosshair aims at. So please fix that! The crosshair shows in some spots NOT where you aim at. And this is just not right! If I aim on the ground under me and hit the wall, whats the point of the crosshair in that spot? If you would do it in reality, it would be hard to hit your legs if you aim at something else ... (well, maybe i could do it, but not somebody who is used in using weapons as i am in using nexgun in nexuiz :>)

Overall, you cant shot at every target you can see in some spots. And if the shots come out of the weapon, you should be able to hit it like in reality (at least with the nex, as it doesnt have a "big" projectile, like the rocket!)

The code works this way (for projectiles with a linear trajectory): when you shoot, the projectile spawns in the muzzle, and takes a linear trajectory going right to the point indicated by the crosshair (plus spread). So the parallax is corrected by the projectile's trajectory. If there happens to be a wall inbetween, then you can only blame yourself.
What you're wanting is that the projectile gets launched from outside the weapon when it's not able to hit the aim point? It is technically possible, but does not make any sense at all to me. Weapons just don't work this way.
In 'real life' weapons, the crosshair should be adjusted to correct parallax, based on the approximate distance of the target. This is exactly what nexuiz does, but here the weapon is adjusted relatively to the sight, and not the opposite, so the crosshair stays at the center of the screen.


Green, the problem is not realism, but having weapon models in a player's hands does not make any sense if projectiles shoot out of the player's face.

[Waterlaz]

And well.... the air controll doesn't make any sense.
Having such a powerfull rocket jump doesn't make any sense.
Oh... and why is it when I shoot heavy rockets while being in the air doesn't push me the other side(my English let's me down here. Nexuiz should obey conservation of linear momentum )? Doesn't make any sense.

But hell... The first two are done exactly for the game to be playable.
So is the shoot from eye thing.
Well let's face it. This is not Counter-Strike or FireArms. There will never be much of a realism.


And camping... The current deal mostly makes nex and other weapons less usable in any situation. Every time you are at the higher level then your oponent.
And it doesn't make camping less usable. It makes _all_ aspects of the game less enjoyable.

[Ed]

And well.... the air controll doesn't make any sense.
Having such a powerfull rocket jump doesn't make any sense.
Oh... and why is it when I shoot heavy rockets while being in the air doesn't push me the other side(my English let's me down here. Nexuiz should obey conservation of linear momentum )? Doesn't make any sense.

But hell... The first two are done exactly for the game to be playable.
So is the shoot from eye thing.

You still keep thinking shooting from eye is more playable perhaps by thinking that it is less realistic, hence more playable, this is incorrect. We don't want people to aim by pixel, that's not fun. People should aim by skill, not by learning to aim like an aimbot. Aim does need to be made harder than this as otherwise there is too much of an advantage to someone firing rather than someone running.

It makes _all_ aspects of the game less enjoyable.

For you perhaps but don't apply that assumption to everyone else.

[Waterlaz]

People should aim by skill, not by learning to aim like an aimbot.

Wether you like it or nor " learning to aim like an aimbot" _IS_ "aim by skill" by definition of the word "skill".

Aim does need to be made harder than this as otherwise there is too much of an advantage to someone firing rather than someone running

If you will be standing at the same spot and not moving you will be killed like....<insert your favorite insult here>.
And this has nothing to do woth shoot from eye being enabled or not.

[Ed]

Wether you like it or nor " learning to aim like an aimbot" _IS_ "aim by skill" by definition of the word "skill".

No, that is not. An aim bot will just shoot at what is under the crosshair, that's a stupid way to aim as even a computer can do that. A skilled way to aim is predicting what your opponents next move is and shooting where he will be, not where he is now. This encourages use of non-hitscan weapons which actually require skill to make use of splash damage or detonation.