Better default config

[Waterlaz]

Ok. But this has nothing to do with shoot from eye...

[GreEn`mArine]

Green, the problem is not realism, but having weapon models in a player's hands does not make any sense if projectiles shoot out of the player's face.

To you and all the others from "the other side": I suppose you should now contact the admins of the following mods:

- Quake 4 Max (not sure whether vanilla Q4 does it from eye too)
- Q3 (yes, it's shootfromeyes in vanilla Quake3)
- UT Comp (not sure whether vanilla UT does it from eye too)
- Warsow (vanilla)

to fix their games then, as they are obviously doing it wrong. No sane person would play a game this way where projectiles come out of the eye


OHHH ... wait

[esteel]

DivVerents main point is that shooting-from-the-eye is an UNCLEAN solution.. the hit is NOT the same as what is drawn on the screen in Q3 and most of those other games. While i see its fun to hide and have 2mm to shoot out somewere, the fact that the shot will be drawn from the gun, sometimes right through a wall is UGLY, WRONG compared to how the 'damage-path' and will help speculations about cheats. Not to mention that doing two traces (one for the damage path and one for the drawn one) will raise cpu load. I think shoot from eye will just help campers.. for most other situations the current 'correct' way will make NO difference at all.
Really, why is there a need to debate a freaking topic that will only matter in 0.5% of the playtime?
http://bikeshed.com/ read this and (re)consider.. you are wasting time here (not just your own but also time from one of the main contributors to Nexuiz, for a feature that will hardly change your style of playing,

And honestly, we should not care about other games too much.. fine they have set a certain default, but is it worth following?!? Its like this in Nexuiz since version 1.0 thats.. omg way to much time gone by to even think about it. There are still nice fights done. WHAT IS THE FREAKING BENEFIT of changing the current behavoir? A few people that think quake is god and every game should copy it will be happy and silent? Will you frag more people? in shorter time? A few more shots will be possible then.. a few more.. play with g_shoot_from_center on ladder servers and you get almost the same behavoir in a much cleaner way! There.. do it.. any further question? Are you done wasting time?

And back to the topic.. The current default makes sense, the guns are ordered like on every other shooter too, on the number keys. I also think a lot of other games use the same settings for ctrl/shift as in Nexuiz. At least i know people looked at other games when doing those defaults. And other stuff like dropping guns was copied from the CS keyconfig, i guess one of the games were this feature is really used. I don't think there is much sense in trying to change the current defaults. People that have their own idea about how keys should be configured have they configs already.
And WASD is used. WASD is an other prime example of freaking bad defaults people feel like to follow. If anything then ESDF is more logical as you do not need to move your hand off the typist position.

It would be nice to have a simple interface to select several predefined configs (including the current keys, maybe ESDF, TFGH (tribes) and the numberpad) That will make much more sense and should not be that hard to code.. Why not create a feature tracker on SF and point some of the people regulary asking 'for work' in the 'NEED developers' thread to it?

[GreEn`mArine]

Good post esteel, also the link to the bikeshed issue was interesting to read

Just to make my personal post from above clear: I was trolling there intionally, of course . The thing is: I do also not want shooting from eyes the be the default of the game. The current default for me is just fine. What I merely want is a better technical solution to the shooting from eye problem (which CAN be used on ladder servers by choice, and thats sufficient imo). Current shooting from eye has two problems:
- Nexgun beam is invisible when standing still
- Rockets and other particle trails already spawn in your face, that looks ugly

I'm trying to solve this, I talked to divVerent and we came up with these approaches:

- add a mindistance keyword to the effectinfo.txt to the particle trail effects, so that e.g. rockets and other trails aren't drawn immediately, but after they are like 50 QUs or more away from my face (I contacted a guy from the "we need more devs" thread, maybe he can do it, as I can't do that myself, and divVerent doesn't care even a little, as he clearly stated, and I don't blame him - developing features is based on the personal opinion and the fun that comes from developing it)

- give the client the possibility to move the weapon to the right as a clientside preference (option also in menu, e.g.: weapon position: "same as server", "force right"). This way one could vote for shootfromeyes, but the gun is moved to the right due to the clients preference, and this way we can have the nexgun beam drawn from this right side as well. DivVerent stated that this was the only way, because in this case the CLIENT decides that he wants the "suckage" of the view rather than having a proper view-presentation (view is broken as projectiles come from eye and not the wpn's position, and also the nexgun beam can sometimes go through edges of the map). As a technical side-note: divVerent said that in the long run this should be done really client-side (networking the weapon-entity as CSQC entity, but I don't have enough knowledge to do that, maybe he will do it some time, he said there were other good reasons to eventually do that anyway), but for now it could be done using the pseudo-clientside mode (customizeentityforclient stuff)

So I'll try to code something like this, but my time is really very limited these days.

Also, I think that all guys here that are against shooting from eyes have not really clue why the other party wants it so bad. The reason is not because other games have it. It's just that these other games have it because THEIR playerbase also wanted it - so, what is it?: when playing competitively, having a difficult match against an equally strong opponent where every small move counts can easily be fucked up by exactly such a moment, where you didn't think of the handicap the game put on you that you have to move really towards the edge (to a degree that you almost slip off it) just to be able to shoot a rocket downwards. A good example is aggressor when you are on the platform where the armor and hagar are next to each other, and you want to shoot down to the rocketlauncher-platform. Shooting in your foot happens often there, and it's just annoying, even when that's not happening so often. But when that happens in an important moment of a game, it just sucks.

[divVerent]

Why not make the crosshair graphics indicate in some way whether the end point on screen can actually be hit by the gun? E.g. grey out the crosshair if the target can't be reached from the shot origin.

[Alien]

Why not make the crosshair graphics indicate in some way whether the end point on screen can actually be hit by the gun? E.g. grey out the crosshair if the target can't be reached from the shot origin.

I don't know any shooter doing this, but this is great idea

[GreEn`mArine]

Please, a laser pointer! And it has to be absolutely realistic. It has to become smaller with the distance so that no1 sees it anymore then. And it has to be default

No, please, not.

[divVerent]

It is now in svn.

crosshair_hittest 1

If the shot wouldn't hit the crosshair point, the crosshair gets blurred.

Happens even when shooting from eye, because rocket launcher and seeker projectiles have a thickness, and this may get "stuck" somewhere on the path to the crosshair point.

[Red Dragon]

Please, a laser pointer! And it has to be absolutely realistic. It has to become smaller with the distance so that no1 sees it anymore then. And it has to be default

No, please, not.

To be honest, I think this is a very interesting idea
It would be very accurate.

[alpha]

It is now in svn.

crosshair_hittest 1

If the shot wouldn't hit the crosshair point, the crosshair gets blurred.

Happens even when shooting from eye, because rocket launcher and seeker projectiles have a thickness, and this may get "stuck" somewhere on the path to the crosshair point.

Tested it, very nice.