Singleplayer Story Mode - Ideas/Development [Spoilers!]

[ai]

Actually, not one of these two are what I actually meant. They both look very very similar. I suppose what I meant was to not have them as much beveled as they are (make the bevel smaller or take away some edges in the bevel and poossibly shrink it down a bit). The thing is, it looks very cartoony in my eyes and would not fit a rather realistic shooter like Nexuiz.
Now I'm not sure I have understood it right, but is that 'mech' alive? Even if it is I still feel it's too cartoony, though it is a bit better in that case. Some parts I can agree with being round and nice, but not the entire thing, just looks odd, and for me does not come across as a more 'advanced' technology. My views may be biased on the other mech and sci-fi works, but I bet many other sees this as well. However, I do encourage new thinking and new concepts, just that this doesn't quite hit the spot yet.

My opinion only, nothing to go after, but hopefully keep in mind.

In my opinion, the body, the 'nose' and the joints (the big bolt things on the legs holding the body and feet together) are the worst parts, they should be a lot more harder.

[Sepelio]

ai:

I think we are going for a proper campaign, not an arena style thing. What he means is that some of the singleplayer maps should by design be able to double up as multiplayer maps.

I say as most of the maps wont by symmetric that we should flesh out assault and race maps. I think it would be fun to race along the maintenance corridors of an ancient dyson sphere

[Flying Steel]

@Flying Steel:
Ok, I've read the whole story and stuff and I gotta be honest. I'm confused like a hell hole. I have no idea what is going on in that story. All the different names and species, their interactions with each other

Don't worry, you've been exposed to millions of years of history over a matter of minutes. This is the "concentrate" of the story. The campaign would introduce this stuff to you gradually, and maybe not even entirely in the end.

and the arena thing (which btw when I read about the first time I felt my heart drop out of my body, meaning I didn't like it) it's like 'ah goddiege goo goo' in my head.

The Arena is there to help us integrate with the "bloodsport" theme of Nexuiz the game with its announcer and scoring system and everything. It is there in part to help soften the reaction we might get from folks who don't think a campaign fits in Nexuiz. It also gives a change of pace, while not breaking with the storyline.

I mean, it's not bad per se, just that I have absolutely no idea what is going on. I suppose only smart people are able to follow your story, I'm not one of these species.

But I gotta say, I liked the story up till the Encounter Era, but the Trial Era and the rest need a total re-write IMO. I definitely didn't like the arena part, and the rest I just couldn't understand by the life of me.

The gist is that the Crusilex started getting bombarded by a constant flow of potent species from around the galaxy, via Nexuiz. So they created a (rigid and heavy) system for dealing with these species.

Ultimately this meant they created somekind of hierarchal confederation, where they are always at the top and they had 3 other species with semi-autonomy that help them fight and manage their empire.

But by the time "Humans" arrive, there is a civil war or revolution going on between 2 of the former underlings on one side and the Crusilex and another underling species on the other. And then we end up getting sucked in, becaus we see it as a means to our end of surviving and then getting back home.

Also, I vote for another name for the 'Crusilex', what are that, a species or an empire? I think it sounds too close to crucifix and I don't think it would be good to have anything that sounds close to a religious thing.

A little note on what these names mean.

They are not what these species call themselves; some might not have auditory names at all, we might not be able to pronounce or write them, or we just never get to learn them.

So what these names for these species actually are, are pseudo-scientific names given to them on the fly by human scientists on the expedition(s), that have then been shortened by the terran soldiers into nicknames that are faster and easier to refer to.

"Crusilex" is something like "Crusta Silex" or whatever is grammatically correct for "Stone Shell(ed)".

And the similarity to Crucifix is done for artistic reasons. It carries a dual meaning, some see it as a sign of salvation against evils, but in actuallity it is just a simple device for orderly execution of those who did not follow the rules or were unlucky. (This makes more sense over the campaign).

However, before continue on I need to know the answer to this question: How is the single player campaign gonna be? Is it going to be UT style, i.e. arena matches (deathmatch, tdm, ctf etc.) or is it gonna be a 'real' (so to speak) single player with a linear approach, a.k.a. Half-Life, Prey, Farcry, Killzone etc.?

Probably both, you'll have alot of those linear levels where you're trying to get to someplace or take/kill something, but then you'll have battlefield levels that might use gametypes like Onslaught under the hood. And then maybe some hold-out levels, where you stay in one place and have to fight off so many enemies or keep them off of you for so long.

Basically, you should probably expect variety.

PS. I will read more indepth the whole thing, from start to finish and see if there is something that needs changing, I've been just reading straight down once, I bet I missed something.

Remember, this is not the format the player will take in this information in the game. The story and backstory will unravel over many levels, perhaps with more levels in between. And there might even be some things left when it's all over for the player to ponder.

[Flying Steel]

Actually, not one of these two are what I actually meant. They both look very very similar. I suppose what I meant was to not have them as much beveled as they are (make the bevel smaller or take away some edges in the bevel and poossibly shrink it down a bit).

Well the bevel is effectively shrunk down on the one. You should be able to see the difference, especially on the pelvis and turret. Not sure what exactly you mean by removing edges?

The thing is, it looks very cartoony in my eyes and would not fit a rather realistic shooter like Nexuiz.

I am a little confused by this.

It seems like players can bunny hop twice as fast as a man can run, fall hundreds of feet and keep moving and never get tired. Those are things you wouldn't find in the newer realistic shooters (though I wouldn't mind things moving more in that direction).

And the art style of Nexuiz doesn't seem full-blown cartoony per se, but it doesn't look realistic either. The bevels are relatively round and wide, proportions of weapons are exaggerated noticeably, the combatants wear very loud colors and have bizarre facial features/proportions, etc.

What is the game's art style/direction and how do we know what it is?

Now I'm not sure I have understood it right, but is that 'mech' alive?

Not sure what you mean exactly. It can have some autonomy and it does have nanotechnology based partial regeneration.

Even if it is I still feel it's too cartoony, though it is a bit better in that case. Some parts I can agree with being round and nice, but not the entire thing, just looks odd, and for me does not come across as a more 'advanced' technology. My views may be biased on the other mech and sci-fi works, but I bet many other sees this as well. However, I do encourage new thinking and new concepts, just that this doesn't quite hit the spot yet.

Well actually, I was in the process of considering where to add more hard-edged, unbeveled plates to the top part of it, like you see on the sides of its legs if you look close. It is a work in progress at this point. Normally I would have waited until it was mesh complete to post screens.

My opinion only, nothing to go after, but hopefully keep in mind.

In my opinion, the body, the 'nose' and the joints (the big bolt things on the legs holding the body and feet together) are the worst parts, they should be a lot more harder.

Hmm, I might keep your advice especially in mind for the alien side UGV's. Thinking more circular or conic section type surfaces that end in hard edges, making them the opposite of this. Can't promise anything though, things change alot while I work on them, experiment on them, etc.

[ai]

I am a little confused by this.

It seems like players can bunny hop twice as fast as a man can run, fall hundreds of feet and keep moving and never get tired. Those are things you wouldn't find in the newer realistic shooters (though I wouldn't mind things moving more in that direction).

And the art style of Nexuiz doesn't seem full-blown cartoony per se, but it doesn't look realistic either. The bevels are relatively round and wide, proportions of weapons are exaggerated noticeably, the combatants wear very loud colors and have bizarre facial features/proportions, etc.

What is the game's art style/direction and how do we know what it is?

I wasn't referring to how realistic the shooter was to actual physics, I was talking about the art style and atmosphere. You don't see cartoony characters shooting each other with cartoony guns. They are rather 'serious/realistic' to what a normal universe would adhere. Your mech looks like it would belong in a game like Spyro, Toy Story or something like that.
What I'm saying is that the art/concept the mech has do not correspond well to Nexuiz style, in it's current situation.

Don't take into account how well rounded the guns are and such, that has no impact on how other things should look like. It's the main style it has to fit, not how rounded the edges are.

On the script part:

A little note on what these names mean.

They are not what these species call themselves; some might not have auditory names at all, we might not be able to pronounce or write them, or we just never get to learn them.
[...]
"Crusilex" is something like "Crusta Silex" or whatever is grammatically correct for "Stone Shell(ed)".

This is not what I meant, I don't really care how the species pronounce their names. It's that one name that I do not like. Btw, that stone shell thing, is it taken from reality or is it something that is taken from the 'scripts' reality? But either way, I don't like the shortened version, why not just use 'Crusta Silex' then? Much better than crusilex, as I mentioned my reasons is that I do NOT want religion to be involved in ANY way with the single player Nexuiz.

[Flying Steel]

I wasn't referring to how realistic the shooter was to actual physics, I was talking about the art style and atmosphere.

You can't really separate the two. Both how things are shaped and how they move determine if they look real or not.

Just look at how fast players move, how they can be bounced off of walls by rocket blasts or fall ten stories and not be dead or unconscious, but then as soon as they do die they suddenly blow completely up into gibs and blood that flys everywhere.

Don't take into account how well rounded the guns are and such, that has no impact on how other things should look like. It's the main style it has to fit, not how rounded the edges are.

But this UGV basically is the same stuff as one of those guns. It is similar technology made by the same manufacturer, for the same conditions, with a similar purpose (it is a weapon).

Plus look at the current character models, do they look realistic or stylized? Look at how big the guns are in proportion to the characters holding them, are they realistically sized relative to their users, or really big in comparison?

All available evidence seems to point to Nexuiz having, not a realistic or cartoony art style, but a surreal art style, like that of the similar and aptly named Unreal series (later games especially).

On the script part:

This is not what I meant, I don't really care how the species pronounce their names. It's that one name that I do not like. Btw, that stone shell thing, is it taken from reality or is it something that is taken from the 'scripts' reality?

It is Latin, not sure if the grammar is okay for a scientific name or anything, but it doesn't really matter.

The Crusilex are a silicon based exotic life-form with a stony and/or metallic exoskeleton, their name describes this characteristic feature of theirs.

But either way, I don't like the shortened version, why not just use 'Crusta Silex' then?

Too long and not dangerous sounding enough, mainly. Most all players would not be able to remember it. Crusilex sounds close to "crucify", which in English vernacular is used to mean "rake someone over the coals" in any number of ways, which ultimately fits them very well. Execution also bears a fitting connotation.

Hmm, I guess "Exosilex" might work.

Much better than crusilex, as I mentioned my reasons is that I do NOT want religion to be involved in ANY way with the single player Nexuiz.

There really isn't. I don't think anyone's going to get a distinctly religious vibe from this as far as I can tell. And if they did, they wouldn't know what to make of it- there's no real message either way, things just happen as they do by the mechanics of this universe.

Plus look at the Doom, Diablo and Halo series', both very strong religious symbolism and undertones, but all very popular, successful, long running franchises, just like many other franchises which didn't. So there's no sense in avoiding any semblance of this kind of thing out of fear of controversy or ideology. And whatever semblance there is, is very minor anyway.

[toneddu2000]

I've only a question: is now defined the game type? Because, if it's not, I've an idea for a Nexuiz integrated single player that could be (imho) interesting (I' m just finishing a pdf mini story), but if it's defined I agree with the others and I'll give you my support for modeling things! I could model environments props (in Blender) and maybe characters(but no texturing )!

[ai]

Ok, I'm gonna try to keep it as simple as possible. First off, Nexuiz has a specific style, call it whatever you want, but your mech does not fit, it is a lot more cartoony than Nexuiz and frankly I think such round edges on a mech look very ugly.
I've been around for a long time, I think I would know what style fits in Nexuiz and what doesn't.

Now, 'Crusta Silex' is not long, it's actually 12 characters (11 if you don't count the space), which is equal to 'Cephidarian' (also 11). So unless you're in denial it's not long. Btw, I don't think any of those names really sound 'dangerous'. They are just odd, for some reason people like to use really weird combination of letters for alien names and such, hoping for that to sound cool or something. This is not picking on you and your choice of names, but this is a fact that I've seen happening which begun once the TV first got invented.

Lastly, I've been trying to give useful advice on what I believe is bad and needs work, you asked for advice/suggestions it so I gave it. However, you don't seem to actually take anything into account but come up with excuses in order to use only what you come up with.
If you want this single player thing to work then I suggest you start listening to critique and start working with other people.
What's the point in posting a story up for critique if you're not willing to work with it?

[Flying Steel]

Ok, I'm gonna try to keep it as simple as possible. First off, Nexuiz has a specific style, call it whatever you want, but your mech does not fit, it is a lot more cartoony than Nexuiz and frankly I think such round edges on a mech look very ugly.
I've been around for a long time, I think I would know what style fits in Nexuiz and what doesn't.

Well I've been playing Nexuiz since version 2.3, so I'm not new to it either, but let's not call artistic rank based on years playing the game or whatever. The bottom line is either Nexuiz doesn't have an actual specific art style (beyond dark scifi) or we're not interpreting it the same way. I have tried to provide some examples to support what my thinking on its art style is though.

Now, 'Crusta Silex' is not long, it's actually 12 characters (11 if you don't count the space), which is equal to 'Cephidarian' (also 11). So unless you're in denial it's not long. Btw, I don't think any of those names really sound 'dangerous'.

Crusta Silex is two words I mean, it looks long. Cephidarian is at the limit of how longs things should be/look methinks. Dangerous might not be the right word, I just don't want them to be long or impotent sounding. That just doesn't work well for a shooter, imo.

Anyway, did you have objections to "Exosilex"?

They are just odd, for some reason people like to use really weird combination of letters for alien names and such, hoping for that to sound cool or something. This is not picking on you and your choice of names, but this is a fact that I've seen happening which begun once the TV first got invented.

They aren't really any odder than the greek and latin words they're built out of, it is just those two languages seem odd to most people and they are used alot in science, which makes them perfect for aliens according to popular media.

Lastly, I've been trying to give useful advice on what I believe is bad and needs work, you asked for advice/suggestions it so I gave it. However, you don't seem to actually take anything into account but come up with excuses in order to use only what you come up with.
If you want this single player thing to work then I suggest you start listening to critique and start working with other people.
What's the point in posting a story up for critique if you're not willing to work with it?

Well the mech and Nexuiz artstyle is not really what I was asking about, in this thread, which is about plot, story and levels. I just posted those screens for KillaGrunt who was asking about models. So don't count that, its a whole other big topic (Nexuiz' art style).

Your other suggestions have been remove Crusilex because it sounds religious and rewrite the later half of the backstory because you didn't understand it (I think) and remove the Arena for reasons not given. But you've got to give me more detail than this, so that we can make intelligent decisions, and so we can understand where each other is coming from. So:

Why should we avoid anything that might invoke religion?

What don't you like about the Arena?

What confuses you about the Encounter and Trial Eras?

Please be specific as to what you don't like about this things and why, so that others can agree or disagree, and if agree, these problem areas don't end up getting crossed again because they weren't defined.

And then let's hear what the others think and go from there.

[ai]

Why should we avoid anything that might invoke religion?

Nexuiz isn't religious. There has been no sign whatsoever since 1.0 that evoked religious intention, it would be really bad to start now. It wouldn't fit, and it could potentially mess up other peoples view on it. Granted that there wasn't much of a story in the first place, but even in the maps and behavior wasn't any signs of religion. If you or someone else would think medieval maps then that's not a good basis, as medieval doesn't necessarily evoke religion, just simpler times.

What don't you like about the Arena?

I'm not against arena per se, it's the magnitude the arena has on the story which I do not like. For all intents and purposes, an arena has been nothing more than just entertainment throughout history. There has been no case ever that an arena actually decided the military power of any super power. Thus, because of this I see the whole thing as 'ridiculous'. No one, no matter how big or small military resources anyone has, no one would judge to 'invade' another power based solely on arena match outcome. That's why this whole thing sounds ridiculous to me.

Now, as I said, I don't mind there being an arena type thing in the story. Only that it do not have any impact on anything, just there solely for entertainment or whatever.

What confuses you about the Encounter and Trial Eras?

Actually, the text. I'm not that intelligent, thus I just didn't understand what I read. Text too complicated, simple it down or something.

PS. Btw, how long have you been involved with 3D? Do you have a portfolio or other references you could show? What are your experiences?