Shotgun to Shotpistol

[FraNcoTirAdoR]

As far as I know, attempting to change the arsenal would break all current maps (since entities would change), be a difficult thing to do and probably too much of a major change for many players. I don't mind the idea of being spawned with a shotgun, just that I would have preferred it being a small weapon or pistol for something given at spawn time.

I dont think so maps would be broken, because Crylink can easily be replaced by a new weapon anywhere, thats how the testing of HLAC and TAG worked on public servers earlier. HLAC can only be found on some maps, but it could also be replaced the same way.

[Flying Steel]

Wiping out two good weapons is kind of a big change that isn't really necessary to fix the shotgun. Just making the shotgun a pick-up weapon with balanced firepower and ammo consumption would solve a lot of problems while being a more bit-sized change.

And BTW, if you don't like the idea of the shotgun being a starting weapon that is about as powerful as the other pickup weapons, you'd better push hard for making the shotgun a pickup weapon itself. Because one of LordHavoc's major design points for 2.6 is to make the shotgun powerful like it is in most other games- like new players expect and want it to be. And at the same time, it still doesn't run out of ammo very fast at all in 2.6.

So the shotgun is going to become much more powerful very soon. The only question is do you want this powerful weapon as a pickup or in the hands of every player that just spawned in?

[alphagod]

My suggestion, add shotpistol as a spawn only weapon that can't be dropped, make shotgun a real weapon with a uniform spread, make crylink into a flak-like weapon where projectiles slow down and bounce around. It won't break any maps this way as shotgun will still appear where it's placed, crylink will still have the wanted behaviour except that it will feel natural to shoot and shotpistol will be a good starting weapon, that's not a full fledged shotgun but perhaps a bit of both shotty and mg.

[FraNcoTirAdoR]

My proposal is to reduce the number of weapons by merging some, because its more fun to play with fewer, but completely different weapons. Hlac, hagar and crylink that needs technically the same fighting and aiming method and their function is pretty similar too.
Removing shotgun from starting weapon and placing it on the map + adding a pistol would be completely the opposite: now we will have +1, so sth like 16 weapons, what the point of that? I cant imagine that pistol to be unique enough that it deserves a whole new entity... What will it do? Shoot bullet fast? We already have camping rifle. Shoot a fast particle? We have another laser. Shoot a mediumfast particle? We dont need another hagar. Nexuiz doesnt need 50 different weapons for the same function. I dont want to promote quake live, but you should check out how it created very good situation dependant arsenal: you HAVE TO use all weapon in the proper situation if you want to gain advantage over the opponent (yeah it needs suitable maps for this too but thats another story) otherwise you dont stand a chance. Every weapon beat any other weapon in the proper fighting situation. This is something that Nexuiz really misses currently.

[alphagod]

My proposal is to reduce the number of weapons by merging some, because its more fun to play with fewer, but completely different weapon than with hlac, hagar and crylink that needs tecnically the same fighting and aiming method and their function is pretty similar too. Removing shotgun from starting weapon and placing it on the map + adding a pistol would be completely the opposite: now we will have +1, so sth like 16 weapons, what the point of that? I cant imagine that pistol to be unique enough that it deserves a whole new entity... What will it do? Shoot bullet fast? We already have camping rifle. Shoot a fast particle? We have another laser. Shoot a mediumfast particle? We dont need another hagar. Nexuiz doesnt need 50 different weapons for the same function. I dont want to promote quake live, but you should check out how it created very good situation dependant arsenal: you HAVE TO use all weapon in the proper situation if you want to gain advantage over the opponent (yeah it needs suitable maps for this too but thats another story) otherwise you dont stand a chance. Every weapon beat any other weapon in the proper fighting situation. This is something that Nexuiz really misses currently.

The pistol will be something like a weak shotgun, while the shotgun will be a more powerful version. Doom does this by having two shotguns, tough it's imbalanced there i see no problem with balancing it here. The problem here is that you get a very strong starting weapon, while having a really weak one isn't good either, making the shotgun weak is stupid imo, leaving it like this is worthless as you already start with one of the strongest weapons in the game when used right.

As for the extra weapons I believe, HLAC and fireball have nothing to do in the current game, neither does the tuba. CR is mostly ok if the rail does more damage(90-100) and it has a bit better headshot. Having a lot of weapons isn't really a problem, having different behaviors and making the weapons and the game feel natural is. HLAC atm is worthless, could be a charge gun or something, like the ut biorifle or like nexball uses charge. Fireball can be a bfg, but it definetly needs a SANITY check on the primary fire and a bit more damage/ammo consumption on secondary. Tuba shouldn't even be here, gauntlet is the way to go. And minstanex shouldn't be a peaceable weapon. Should just be used in minsta games, period.

Anyways shotpistol can be a somewhat underpowered starting weapon, not 100% weak not really balanced either. Quake 3 uses the machinegun, it does little damage and is perfect for finishing up the job while also giving a figthing chance when spawning, make the weapon like this too(well not really machinegun but like a shotty that fits the description).

[FraNcoTirAdoR]

And what are the ideas for the behavior of this pistol? Should it be like a faster shotgun with smaller spread but less damage? Or like a "normal" pistol, like camping rifle only usable for close range due range dependant damage and no spread and only 1 fast particle?

[C.Brutail]

From an another thread:

Another Idea has came to my mind about the shotgun:

Normal, starter weapon:
Primary fire stays as it is, secondary firemode is a very fast burst mode, sometihng like 2.6 secondary. Only change that you've got less ammo - two / three bursts will eat away all your starter shells.

Super shotgun:
Picable, uses shells. Primary damage is huge (around 100-120 if all pellets hit), very large spread and at least 1.5 sec refire rate. Eats twice as much ammo as normal shotgun's primary.
Secondary fire is a spin-up spin down mode, similar to a chaingun. Wide spread, and eats ammo like hell - if you don't have at least 50 shells, you can't even reach the full spinned up potential. Makes high damage if you can control it.