(DM) Final Rage

[PinkRobot]

Final Rage supports DM and TDM afaik.

Graphics: This map looks really good, it has the looks I have come to regard as the Nexuiz base look but with nice original touches like the lights for example.

I do not like playing here a lot though, because:

Gameplay:

In a 1on1 there does not seem to be any reason to travel any further across the map then then about 10 meters away from the teleporter room. The nexgun and rocket laucher are both at very close distance there, the first armor is about 10 meters away from the entrance to the teleporter room and the second armor is 5 meters from where you exit the teleporter. Once a player is able to reach that position he can stack up on armor and health like there's no tomorrow and the other player is left scrambling for the crumbs basically.

Imho, a player controlling a game by controlling the items is fine, it just shows they know the map and know their movement. However I still feel that when they control the map the should control the WHOLE map. At Final_Rage there does not seem to be a reason to access the further away bits of the map.

To balance out the map maybe:

- the teleporter will only go one way, towards the armor, like the other tele only goes up and not down. The player will then need to take any of the other routes back to the MH and is more likely to expose himself;
- the 2nd armor could be placed further away from the tele, maybe to where the mortar is at the moment, again, to get it the player needs to travel further and expose himself more.

Please point out where I am wrong and why this map is the perfect 1on1 map after all :]

[GreEn`mArine]

Actually I think your suggestions are really good, and I've played that map so often in 1on1s already. Alternative 1 (making the teleporter onesided) seems to be a good choice for a start.

[esteel]

I also have to agree. Its a very well done map visual wise but maybe it should be scaled a bit as the 'doors' and stuff can be quite narrow at times but its not as bad as on other maps so i think this is just a MAYBE. (Can be done for like Nexuiz 2.5 which then might be declared incompatible with older releases..)

The suggestion regarding the teleporter is really good. I think a early version of this map only had one-way teleporters. Maybe tZort can tell us why he felt to change this back then.
I'm not sure about changing the placement. What about exchanging crylink and the armor??

I voted for 'good' as it IS good but some of the request could improve it even more.

[nifrek]

This map is fantastic in many way, there's so many tricks you can do to move around quickly and does require some skills to not get stuck everywhere. Against a good player who knows how to time items well, it is very challenging to break control which I really find interesting and I think the 2-way tele is one of the reason for it. Might be just me but this map is probably the most fun I've had when not in control, it's like playing chess and you have to beat your opponent at his own game, break his timing by making him make errors. Very fun.

But the one-way teleporter suggestion would be interesting indeed, but I wouldn't change the armor's location. I could make that modification but I've never been able to compile the map, my lack of knowledge with the compiler is probably the cause (I just use the presets from gtkradient "Build" menu).

Final rage is also a great 2v2 map, which I can't really explain since it is so small. I think it works very well because, even if small, has 2 separated areas joined by many routes, one area being more important to control and the second where you can retreat and recover before attacking. The 1-way tele would ruin 2v2 IMO.

[Dokujisan]

I do like this map a lot for various reasons, but I have to agree that it's hard to break someone's control at times during 1v1.

I think it's pretty easy to scoop up MH and MA at once. Because of the teleporter, they are basically right next to each other. Esteel suggested switching the armor and the crylink. That's not a bad suggestion. Alernatively, you could switch the armor with the machine gun on the floor. or you switch it with the rocket ammo that is behind the mortar (in that small descending hallway behind the crylink). That's an area that is a little bit dangerous because you can get caught there. That would require the person controlling the map to have to commit to moving completely out of position to get both MH and MA. It's not a huge change, but it could make a noticable difference.

If this map is to improve, I think it should be only with subtle changes.

[Dokujisan]

BTW, this is a map where I've always wanted to see a CTF version of it. I posted this request a long time ago, but I think the hard part was figuring out how one would mirror the map and where the bases would go. I was thinking the bases would be either the megarmor room or the megahealth room, and then the mirrored sides would connect with two paths, where the hagar and quad are located.

[nifrek]

I've been working on a CTF version, I thought I mentioned it to you? Anyway, problem is compiling it, I can only do at lower quality settings (lighting looks like shit). But I'll just finish working on the layout and then ask for help.

[Dokujisan]

!!

No, I didn't know you were working on that, but that's great news! I'm surprised that you're able to successfully run gtkradiant with all of the computer problems you've been having recently.

Ooh, maybe the CTF version could also be used as a 4v4TDM.

[tZork]

The twoway teleporter where never there at all in the original design, i put it in to increase flow to the mg area.

After seeing demos of 1on1 matches on this i have to agree that the item placmenet needs redoing, not sure how yet but theres some nice sugestst above.

Scaling it was considers more then once, but i kinda liked the close feeling of not doing it + it would break some neet trickmoves.

Heres a few Ideas i had:
Swap MH and GL
+ harder to conrtol mh
- gl, rl & nex basicaly in teh same room.

Make the MH tele goto GL and mg tele to hagar
+ teleporter becomes less usefullt to control all super items
- confusing?

Swap Crylink and mg armour, swap Mg and/for ?
messy

Use +25 armours insted, put mh at strength, lr at mh.

[Dokujisan]

Whoa...I didn't even think of changing the teleporters like that. Interesting ideas.

Is there any way to maybe test out three variations?
final-rage-test1
final-rage-test2
final-rage-test3

This is such a good map, I think it would be worthwhile to put any changes through a good testing process and then let people choose betwen them for the next version.