[DM] cores

[lda17h]

Just played it.
It's a pretty vertical map, so I don't think it's playable because of that detail alone.

offhand, I can't think of any successful maps with a vertical layout

Well, you are entitled to your own opinion. Personally i like that added dimension in gameplay

[Dokujisan]

Ok, you've worked on a few maps for Nexuiz.
So far, I find that you pretty quickly reject most feedback.

You're almost as bad as Cortez or Mikee when it comes to receiving feedback.
Both of those guys ask for feedback on their maps, but then they reject just about all of the feedback that they receive. It's pointless, really, to even give them feedback at all.

So, why even ask for feedback?
You keep telling me I'm entitled to my opinion, but I'm also entitled to not give my opinion, if it always gets rejected.

That is what I did with Cortez and Mikee. I just stopped talking to them about their maps because it was as productive as urinating on a brick wall. Apparently, they are just fishing for compliments rather than asking for true feedback.

On vertical maps...

I don't consider aggressor to be a vertical map. There are some semi-successful maps that have a vertical layout for some parts of the map, like Towers (CTF map). But as you can see in this video, that map has some flaws as well. The vertical layout of the bases and the middle structure is interesting, but it can also be completely skipped over with a rocket or laser.

For a DM map, you need some areas to have a battle, and your map only has one "battle" area, which is at the bottom.

[lda17h]

Ok, you've worked on a few maps for Nexuiz.
So far, I find that you pretty quickly reject most feedback.

You're almost as bad as Cortez or Mikee when it comes to receiving feedback.
Both of those guys ask for feedback on their maps, but then they reject just about all of the feedback that they receive. It's pointless, really, to even give them feedback at all.

So, why even ask for feedback?
You keep telling me I'm entitled to my opinion, but I'm also entitled to not give my opinion, if it always gets rejected.

That is what I did with Cortez and Mikee. I just stopped talking to them about their maps because it was as productive as urinating on a brick wall. Apparently, they are just fishing for compliments rather than asking for true feedback.

On vertical maps...

I don't consider aggressor to be a vertical map. There are some semi-successful maps that have a vertical layout for some parts of the map, like Towers (CTF map). But as you can see in this video, that map has some flaws as well. The vertical layout of the bases and the middle structure is interesting, but it can also be completely skipped over with a rocket or laser.

For a DM map, you need some areas to have a battle, and your map only has one "battle" area, which is at the bottom.

Hmm, no, i do not reject all criticism. For example Franco's suggestions made me rework many parts of minideck. I really liked Samual's feedback, too. Also what C.Brutail said about my first [admittedly really awful map] was helpful.

It's just that i reserve the right for me to disagree with opinions stated. In this case you claim that the vertical nature of the map makes it unplayable. I do not share this opinion, as i had some fun test matches on this map. There are also some very simple UT99 maps like fractal reactor which had really fun gameplay. And i really think this could be a fun DM map for 6-8 people

I do not consider cores suited for competitive playing.

That said: I create these maps, because i enjoy doing so. I release them for the community to use, modify and improve. I do not think i have the obligation to follow advice i do not agree with. Throw on NetRadiant and "fix" the map to your liking Or create better ones.

Also, i would prefer if you avoided comparing people with brick walls. Let's keep the flaming out of this discussion.. Thanks..

[Dokujisan]

There are a number of things about the Nexuiz community that have disappointed me within the 6-8 months. This is one of them.

When I give feedback, I don't expect you to just do as I say, like a robot. I do expect you to consider the issue being raised and perhaps have dialog about it. Don't just respond with "Well, that's your opinion".

What I said about vertical maps still holds true. It's difficult to make a successful vertical map. I'm not saying it shouldn't be done. I love experimentation with map concepts. But there are probably some important details that need to be considered in order for experimental maps to work. These things usually come about after a discussion....ya know, back and forth communication.

There are a lot of Nexuiz maps. However, most of those maps sit and collect dust because they are not really playable. They need to be adjusted in various ways to be really playable. They need revisions. They need testing. They need discussion.

So the Nexuiz map pool is very disappointing in a lot of ways. It sucks to see the mapping process being unproductive. So not only am I giving feedback to the maps that are made, I'm criticizing mappers themselves.

If you've taken criticism and made some changes to your maps, that's great. I haven't seen it, so I didn't know about it. I just remember the conversation that I (and some others) had with you about minideck and you seemed closed off to feedback. I think minideck (DM and CTF) looks great and I was hoping to have minideck_CTF on my servers at some point.

[Dokujisan]

...and there is a difference between flaming and criticism.

Flaming has the intention of insulting them and getting some emotional response.
Criticism has the intention of promoting positive change. I'm trying to criticize here.

[PinkRobot]

Just played it.
It's a pretty vertical map, so I don't think it's playable because of that detail alone.

offhand, I can't think of any successful maps with a vertical layout

Read that back. It basically just reads as "you made a vertical map and vertical maps suck". What could he ever do with this? Turn the map 90 degrees in Radiant and recompile?

edit: actually, I think that might work well

[Samual]

Well, i'm slightly with Dokujisan here -- I like the style of this map, but i'm not sure how well it will work out since it is a vertical map.. I mean, I personally find it fun and perhaps could be interesting on a public server, though.

[lda17h]

Well, i'm slightly with Dokujisan here -- I like the style of this map, but i'm not sure how well it will work out since it is a vertical map.. I mean, I personally find it fun and perhaps could be interesting on a public server, though.

Yeah, that was my whole intention. I always tremendously enjoyed gameplay in vertical maps in UT99. I do not see how it's impossible to transfer that to nexuiz where you even have a laser to help with the vert

[lda17h]

...and there is a difference between flaming and criticism.

Flaming has the intention of insulting them and getting some emotional response.
Criticism has the intention of promoting positive change. I'm trying to criticize here.

Well for me comparing people to brick walls is personal and emotional. I just suggested that keeping the personal level out of this might be helpful. If you have ideas for improvement, that i agree with, i might integrate them. Keep in mind that i also have a life besides nexuiz and allocating time for altruistic things like creating maps for my favorite computer game might be not always be too easy..

[lda17h]

Bumping this thread, cause i uploaded a bug fix release.. Somehow in the last build i had a displaced brush which is showing at the ceiling. I hope everything's allright with this new release.. I updated the top post with the new update link..