Reducing spawn kills

[GreEn`mArine]

I actually like the idea best where you would see your next spawnpoint and be able to delay your spawn at that location up to 2 seconds or so

[Dokujisan]

The main problem when spawning is that you are vulnerable. So make the player start with 100 Health, 100 Armour and a good weapon like the machinegun. Problem solved.

No, that doesn't solve it. The tourney mod has a warmup mode where you get full weapons and more armor/health when you spawn. A common "problem" with this scenario is that the person who just died will spawn and then immediately go and kill the remaining player because they have low health. So if you give newly spawned players extra armor and a better weapon, it'll give them an advantage.

To KOJN:
What is wanted is to remove or reduce the common scenario where one player can easily kill another player without any skill involved and without that player being able to defend themselves. It's like an automatic kill and that's why it's lame. It's not about adding more rules. It's about tweaking the game to make it more about skill than about taking advantage of a game feature to get an easy point.

Making the spawned player invisible and invulnerable and not able fire their weapon for a few seconds is a good tradeoff, I think. As always, this should be an optional feature that is set on the server side. Options are always good.

[The mysterious Mr. 4m]

I vote for... nothing !
It'd be bad to add rules, rules and again rules everytime players complain...
Moreover, spawn-killing doesn't happen so often... (at least in CTF)
But maybe it'd be good for 1on1 (especially for the ladder matches).

I think this is a true point and i missed this before i wrote my post, it just does seem like adding rules and rules, it's been like this since nexuiz bega from when i have played..i don't see the point in wanting a change now.

what would be next....i took 5 armours in a row so im not allowed to pick another one up next time?

oh and i can't think to imagine how terrible this would be in CTF / TDM when the gameplay is quite frantic..having to wait 1-3 seconds till a players 'invincibility' ran out before you could shoot...even 2 players fresh off a spawn if one gets a weapon and the other just has a shotgun within the time before it wears off then they can both start shooting at you straight away after it wears off...i mean come-on this would be ridiculous, its then putting me who already has weapons at a disadvantage..a really big one.

I understand the frustration of less-experienced players, but i share k0jak's views mostly. Any changes regarding spawning heavily influence the game experience. ihsan's idea to indicate the immunity by glowing is a necessity for anything over 1 second. It should only give you time to get away from the hotspot. You could only use Laser while the Shotgun was locked during this time. Alternatively to time, the immunity could also expire after leaving the spawnpoint.

[torus]

So, can this be implemented? It seems like most people are in agreement that this is a problem, and that 2-3 seconds of invincibility is the solution (granted that the player is glowing during that time, and he cannot shoot).
I think its better that player be stopped from shooting during this time, even with the laser- because otherwise it could be abused. For example, on facing someone could grab the Quad and laser to the enemy base by the time 3 seconds is up.

[PinkRobot]

This change would just be annoying and confusing. Please don't :]

I think it would be a tremendously bad idea for the following reasons:

1: In a 1on1 I am having a big fight with someone, we both take heavy damage but I am the first on to end up dead. When I spawn and I am near to the player GET THIS: I AM AT AN ADVANTAGE ! I AM STACKED WITH HEALTH ! AND THE SHOTGUN CAN DO A LOT OF DAMAGE !
Do you know how many times I have been able to end somebody's streak because of a LUCKY SPAWN ? I am close, give them 3 whacks with the SG and be done with them. But if I can't shoot for 3 seconds I can only run away ! And a player who runs away is always at a disadvantage ! How stupid and annoying would this be ? When I am spawned I want to be able to shoot dammit ! You all seem to think that the player who survives in a fight gets out of it with 150 Health and 100 armor but very often in 1on1's this is NOT the case [except when playing kojn of course ].

2: Also how far do you think the player will get when he has 2-3 seconds of normal running ? Only when you spawn on top of a good weapon will you stand any chance against a good player. Who, by the way IS able to use laser, so you stand an even smaller chance. Because if someone spawn rapes then they will also see no problem going after you... What do you think, they will gracially let you get away ? Well then they would have done that anyway.

Please don't :]

If it does get changed please only by default for CTF ? Don't let DM suffer again for a change to CTF gameplay :S

Please, just... don't.

[Dokujisan]

When I spawn and I am near to the player GET THIS: I AM AT AN ADVANTAGE ! I AM STACKED WITH HEALTH ! AND THE SHOTGUN CAN DO A LOT OF DAMAGE !

You think that none of us have thought about that scenario? Seriously, are you the only one out of the entire Nexuiz community that has played 1v1? Maybe you're right because you wrote it in all caps.

What about the flipside of that scenario? I had a 1v1 just a few days ago where I was down 8-0 and I broke the other player's streak FINALLY. Man, what a relief. Then he spawned right in front of me and killed me easily because I had 35 health left. I lost the chance to gain control of the map because of that spawn. That happened to me a second time later on during the same match. So "lucky spawns" aren't always a good thing. It's an advantage or a kill that is not based on skill and that makes it an undesired thing.

2: Also how far do you think the player will get when he has 2-3 seconds of normal running ?

They at least won't be killed by weapon as soon as they spawn. They at least have some chance to do evade or head toward a weapon, health, armor or powerup.

Only when you spawn on top of a good weapon will you stand any chance against a good player. Who, by the way IS able to use laser, so you stand an even smaller chance. Because if someone spawn rapes then they will also see no problem going after you... What do you think, they will gracially let you get away ? Well then they would have done that anyway.

Please don't :]

I'm so sick of people in the Nexuiz community shooting down ideas before they even leave the starting gate. It's like a disease that sometimes spreads through this community. Some even sound upset that conversations like this even happening.

Isn't the whole premise of open source based upon open experimentation with ideas and exploring without limitation? Isn't that how Nexuiz was built? Ok, people pointed out that UT has tried something to reduce spawnkills before and I suppose it didn't work for UT. Well, this isn't UT. THIS IS SPARTA....I mean THIS IS NEXUIZ!!! Maybe Nexuiz can eventually come up with a better solution than UT. What's wrong with exploring the possibilities that could result in helping gameplay? Spawn kills obviously bother lots of players, so it definitely would be an improvement if some solution would come from this.

Why not have multiple OPTIONS for the server admin to set and adjust and experiment to find out if it's a good thing or a bad thing instead of making conclusions so early?

If it does get changed please only by default for CTF ? Don't let DM suffer again for a change to CTF gameplay :S

Throughout this discussion, I've primarily been thinking about DM gameplay, but it would help CTF also.

[PinkRobot]

Wait... it is now being put in to protect the spawnraper himself... ? What ?

Well do as you like, just don't put it in as a default like that 5 seconds to self kill option was :/

[tZork]

waaah? spawnprotect in pvp? wth? is this not this gamestyle all abt beating your oponent silly, and keep kicking him/her while down untill it stays down? srsly, i dont get it for pvp. for public team games games it makes somehwat sense (if done 'right') but dm/1v1?

[The mysterious Mr. 4m]

Hm, how about only on Beginner servers?

[TVR]

... is this not this gamestyle all abt beating your oponent silly, and keep kicking him/her while down untill it stays down? ...

If so, the round may be stopped and the winner determined after the first frag.