Reducing spawn kills

[sev]

Obviously, if you give one player an advantage, the other player(s) will get a disadvantage, and it is unlikely that every player will be satisfied with one or another solution.

As this ongoing discussion shows, the spawning process is not (yet) ideal, and I think the reason is that spawn points are too attractive to players who aim for easy frags. A possible solution should therefore make it less attractive to linger around spawn points.

Giving the spawned player good weapons can lead to other problems, I see that.

Personally, I do not like the idea of invincibility, I think it just delays the problems. What you basically get are glowing players wandering around, clearly indicating they just spawned and are easy targets when the glowing stops.

I like the idea mentioned some time before, which is to make the spawned player invisible (not inviNCible) for a few seconds.
I thought about that and I would take that even further:
For a few seconds after spawning, the server does not process the data you produce and does not send you data from the ongoing match. During this time you can do anything like normal (jump with laser, pick up power-ups). After this time communication with the server continues, and you continue playing, and appear the other players, from where and how you are (basically like a lag).

The advantage I see in this solution is that the spawn point becomes a spawn field, and where someone spawn becomes (more) unpredictable, thus making the spawn locations less attractive to wait for easy frags. And the spawned player would not get the advantage of seeing the other players and being able to surprise them with an attack right after becoming visible.

[Strahlemann]

Okay, here goes my idea for spawn points (sorry if this has been discussed before, i haven't read the whole thread ) :

You spawn like always, but you've 2 seconds where you can use a "personal teleporter" to teleport you to the next spawnpoint.
This could be realized by pressing "jump" during the first 2 seconds. Of course jumping is important at the beginning to gain speed, and if you're satisfied with your spawnpoint then teleporting would be silly. So jumping as teleporting should only work if you haven't pressed a movement key so far.
This should only work once after your initial spawn.

So basically:
1. you spawn
2a. you move and thus your spawn can't get changed anymore (like it is now)
2b. you have 2 seconds time to look around and to use "jump" to teleport to the next spawnpoint if you want to. This works once a spawn.

If you get hit instantly after spawning, you'll be pushed away, but as long as you don't use a movement key you still can teleport.

Pros:
-You can play Nexuiz like you always played it, but you have this new opportunity to teleport. This is basically an advantage, but to use it you'll need some time to realize where you've spawned and you need to stand still. So this advantage is counterbalanced by the need to get orientation first.
-You're not invincible which is an unfair advantage.
-You can avoid too messed up spawn-areas.
-You can't choose a specific spawnpoint to get a calculated advantage.
-You need to think fast. This will give an advantage to skilled players who know the map thus rewarding them.
-If your opponent/s hits you instantly after spawning and you teleport away, he still has the advantage that he's stocked and he knows that you got hurt, thus rewarding him. Still you have the opportunity to get back into the game on a fair level.

Cons:
-You'll be able to check out two different parts in a map very fast. That could be an unfair advantage especially in 1on1s. On the other hand: you just got killed
-Hard to explain fast to new players ingame. There could be a "T"-icon blinking as long as you can teleport
-Shooting/Killing a player (using the shotgun for example) and teleporting to another spawnpoint could be possible, which can be an unfair advantage. This would happen very rarely though imo.

Btw: Maybe another time limit works better, but i think something around 2 seconds is fair.
What do you think ?

[utze]

So basically:
1. you spawn
2a. you move and thus your spawn can't get changed anymore (like it is now)
2b. you have 2 seconds time to look around and to use "jump" to teleport to the next spawnpoint if you want to. This works once a spawn.

Hmmm, sounds good to me!
One little thing concerning 2b:
Imho, the next spawnpoint should be out of sight of the initial one and random.
So if you wanna get away of your oppenent, you have the chance to do so.

[nifrek]

(talking about 1v1 here) Spawnkills are part of the part of the game, IMHO it should not be changed. Anything done to fix this will cause other problems.

However, if invincibilty didnt have that glowing light, I would agree with a 1 sec invincibility, but not more. Why? Because has it was mentioned, shotgun is strong and this makes the freshly spawned player have the advantage. If you have 3 sec invincibility and spawn close to the other player, those 3 secs are enough to kill him if he doesn't have armor, and even if he has armor, you can hit him with shotgun during those 3 secs and if he doesnt kill you right after those seconds have passed, hit him again and he's dead. It doesn't make sense if the player just having made a kill has to be the one running away.

1 sec would be enough because if your opponent fires a rocket at a spawn point in case you'll spawn there, that rocket won't kill you. And 1 second is enough to start moving/laser jump out the way. So firing rockets are spawnpoints would become a lot less useful.

BUT, as I said, spawnkills are part of the game and I personally do not consider this a problem.

[GreEn`mArine]

the only right solution to prevent spawnkills is to prevent spawning

use g_arena and be fine. After a kill everybody respawns.

[The mysterious Mr. 4m]

Okay, here goes my idea for spawn points (sorry if this has been discussed before, i haven't read the whole thread ) :

You spawn like always, but you've 2 seconds where you can use a "personal teleporter" to teleport you to the next spawnpoint.
This could be realized by pressing "jump" during the first 2 seconds. Of course jumping is important at the beginning to gain speed, and if you're satisfied with your spawnpoint then teleporting would be silly. So jumping as teleporting should only work if you haven't pressed a movement key so far.
This should only work once after your initial spawn.

So basically:
1. you spawn
2a. you move and thus your spawn can't get changed anymore (like it is now)
2b. you have 2 seconds time to look around and to use "jump" to teleport to the next spawnpoint if you want to. This works once a spawn.

If you get hit instantly after spawning, you'll be pushed away, but as long as you don't use a movement key you still can teleport.

Pros:
-You can play Nexuiz like you always played it, but you have this new opportunity to teleport. This is basically an advantage, but to use it you'll need some time to realize where you've spawned and you need to stand still. So this advantage is counterbalanced by the need to get orientation first.
-You're not invincible which is an unfair advantage.
-You can avoid too messed up spawn-areas.
-You can't choose a specific spawnpoint to get a calculated advantage.
-You need to think fast. This will give an advantage to skilled players who know the map thus rewarding them.
-If your opponent/s hits you instantly after spawning and you teleport away, he still has the advantage that he's stocked and he knows that you got hurt, thus rewarding him. Still you have the opportunity to get back into the game on a fair level.

Cons:
-You'll be able to check out two different parts in a map very fast. That could be an unfair advantage especially in 1on1s. On the other hand: you just got killed
-Hard to explain fast to new players ingame. There could be a "T"-icon blinking as long as you can teleport
-Shooting/Killing a player (using the shotgun for example) and teleporting to another spawnpoint could be possible, which can be an unfair advantage. This would happen very rarely though imo.

Btw: Maybe another time limit works better, but i think something around 2 seconds is fair.
What do you think ?

I kinda like that idea. ( because of the blinking "T" )
But it seems too complex. New players already have difficulties entering the game.

[Skelgor]

The solution to this is very simple.

1. Random spawns, but smarter spawns.

If you die, you should not spawn immediately to the opposite side of the map. That would be horrible. The game should be able to select from 3-4 different spawn points that are very far away, and then randomly choose one of them as to not eliminate randomness and to prevent spawn memorization.

2. Invincibility for 2-3 seconds.

This is the most easily misinterpreted thing. Invincibility = bad, right? Absolutely, unless it's implemented correctly. If you spawn and an enemy is in the vicinity, if you dont' shoot, you remain invincible until your spawn invincibility wears off. If you DO shoot, then your invincibility wears off instantly. This is the most proper way to implement spawn invincibility and this is exactly how it should be implemented. No buts about it.

[GreEn`mArine]

number 2 is absolutely not accectable for anything > 1vs1 ... you would have all players be invincible after any1 dies (if they don't shoot)

[ihsan]

number 2 is absolutely not accectable for anything > 1vs1 ... you would have all players be invincible after any1 dies (if they don't shoot)

I don't understand how the killer gets invincible but then again it doesn't matter if everybody is invincible if nobody's shooting.

[The mysterious Mr. 4m]

Sounds interesting!