The ai Frontier - My ups and downs

[ai]

That is something that I have already thought about. But in practice it might not be possible. Zym does not allow for animation blending and unless you want to redesign the code in a dirty manner this won't be possible.
So as it stands now, the legs will show even when carried.

[Alien]

What should be done to make this? I really can't stand current view. Can't bones be removed? What about md3 flag model?

[ai]

Bones have nothing to do with this.
Currently, the flags are .md3 models. I have animated my model without joints/bones and whatnot as apparently either md3 or dpmodel wasn't so happy about that.
What should be done in order for the legs to be animated is this:

1. Either have a .zym with different frames. Meaning on frame 0 there would be the base model, on frame 1 would be the model when it's picked up (i.e. without lasers). This is how player models work if I have understood it correctly. But zym cannot handle animation blending, that is, a player can't look up and down while running, or even standing still for that matter as the standing still pose is also animated.
Now I'm not really sure how this would affect the flags, but I would think it's this term: The cog wheels and the emblem are animated, and repeated. This is on frame 0, now when you switch over to frame 1 then you'd have to add the 'leg-animation' as well, so currently, either the leg animation will have to be played or the cogwheel thing.
There is the option, I think, to have a duplicate of the flag model, only without the lasers. So the lasers would just disappear when flag is picked up and the emblem still animated (not sure this is possible but I see why not).

Now we come to the punchline: I don't know how to create these with .zym. This is what I have been trying to do for weeks, all by myself, tried to get some peeps to help me out but they didn't get back to me. I did not succeed in creating my zyms, with and without joints. Now I on the other hand have found a way to animate them using md3's. That alone took forever. Even if I find a way to create it with zym I don't know how to do that 'frame 0' and 'frame 1' thing. Don't know if it's some code along with the zym's or if it's just the ctf.qc code. So with this I really would need help but either people themselves don't know how to do that or they don't have time/want to.

So it's easy to want things. But lot harder to make it happen, especially if you don't even know how to do it.

2. Keep the md3 models, create another model, animate the lasers to go away and export that. Now re-design the code to use this: On the pickup event, switch to use flagCarried.md3.
But when as soon as the flag is dropped or stationary at base, the code should tell it to use flagBase.md3.
This required multiple versions of the flag (minimum 4 different models, possible 6 if you would want the flag being animated as well when dropped) along with the 'dirty' code I was talking about before. I'm not so sure this would be welcomed with open arms. This is how I see it, it might require a lot of work re-coding the thing or it might even be more complicated than this, I'm no programmer so I don't really know.

One could argue that it would only require 2 or 3 models if .skin files could be used. But that would break lots of maps and stuff, especially if older versions of Nexuiz connected to a newer version server.

[morfar]

Personally I don't care about the lasers. Just make the laser more transparent. I don't see the lasers as a mean for keeping the flag upright, but just decorative lights. Laser disco!

And I'm against multiple flag models. It's overkill for a small thing like this.
I'm also against skins. Because I think it would break for maps that specify different models.

As for the technical stuff. I don't think .zym have frames at all. It's a skeletal based format.
But I don't know for sure if .zym can have frames also.

[Alien]

The cog wheels and the emblem are animated, and repeated. This is on frame 0, now when you switch over to frame 1 then you'd have to add the 'leg-animation' as well, so currently, either the leg animation will have to be played or the cogwheel thing.

Is it not possible to animate both (flag emblem and legs)?

[ai]

Yes it is. I also thought about that. But then comes the issue as how to make this whole thing work, and I have absolutely no idea how to even start. I mean, sure, I can animate the legs being both retracted and detracted (for flag pickup and flag drop). If it's joint-based animation then it's going to be a little harder but I think it could be done. But animating it is pretty my where my limit goes, after I exported the animations I don't know where to go from there and make zym know what to play on which frame.
So unless anyone can do that for me, or tell me how to do it, this leg animation when picked up won't be possible.

[tZork]

Ok here how you do it.

You separate the lasers and the top part.
You animate the top part.
You place a tag_something at the split (well it don't actually matter where, but it looks more logical that way ). You name the top part/s top_something and the bottom ones bottom_something. Now you export the top ones separately, with the "flag animations", then you export the lasers (bottom) part as one model. you use .skins to colour it. Now its easily possible to turn the lasers on and off in code without having to have more then two models or different animation versions for both states.

If you like i can do this for you, just poke me on irc.

[morfar]

The lasers is already separated and have shaders.
So you are saying that he creates a .skin that just enable disable the laser?
That wont be hard. But I'm still against skins.

[tZork]

no, skins changes the color. code turns the lasers on or off.

[ai]

Have I understood this right?
Shall I separate the lasers from the flag model, animate them and export together with the flag but only tagged. What is this tag then, just a normal name for the lasers?
If it's the above I have already done this as morfar suggested. But I haven't animated the lasers though.
What in the code (and where) specifies the on/off part of the lasers? Can it handle doing that in a compiled .md3 or do you need something like .zym?

If I have it totally wrong then I can send you necessary files, for you to do this. Then I can take a look what you have done and hopefully learn from it. Thanks.
I also included a nice image of how I comprehended your steps