[IDEA] Ranking

[Kay]

now the question is, Who is gonna make it

[Samual]

A note, i'm the person who wanted to take this over his shoulder for development into 2.6. This could only effectively happen with a full profile system and a master server able to host this information. However, i'm the person working on those. So I will be happy to say that I think I can do this aswell. One of the main problems of an achievement system is cheating. Now, with me hosting a master server, i'll be able to store all achievement information. The problem is that, the information MUST come from the server, else a client can fake it easily (And even then, a server could fake it too.. But i'll make this a little tricky as the client has to be signed onto the server at the time, and meet certain requirements). Also, i'll have to ignore servers with cheats enabled, or balance modifications, as this could potentially make it easier to get certain achievements. The other problem with an achievement system is.. How does the game detect certain events? I already began work on a system to have servers log events such as double kills and etc, but it's not entirely functional yet. Unfortunately this part isn't easy, and would not work on servers that do not have this functionality. Basically, adding a profile system and ranking system like this would break all compatibility with anything before it. (Not that 2.5.x has much compatibility with 2.4 anyway.. Infact 2.5.2 has incredible differences such as new waypoint placement systems.)

But if all of the problems are able to be addressed.. Lets figure out how the ranking system would behave. For the most part, a ranking system that involves badges or labels for certain levels is ridiculous... Not only can I NOT do this (It's incredibly hard to add experience points into Nexuiz and etc... And they would need balanced throughout ALL the game modes.. it's NOT HAPPENING.), but the very idea of advertising skill in such a way is not a very nice concept. It works for games like CoD and similar simply because their whole multiplayer game is built around this! Nexuiz can not do this, as it would require huge weapon system modifications (And would cause major gameplay changes) which, again, I don't know how to do. I propose we build a system that only uses achievements, similar to QuakeLive for example. Thankfully, this is something I can do (Although it is a ton of work, still).


Now...

- Win a DM match without dieing. (with playing from beginning)
- Win a match with the highest nex accuracy.
- Same with mortar
- Collect more than 50 frags in a match (match not longer than 20 minutes)
- Collect 5 airshot on a match.
- Collect 5 headshot on a match.
- Make at least 15 frags in a DM match with shotgun (shotgun ftw)
- Collect at least 10 frags with a single quad rush
- Collect more than 20 quadfrags on a DM match
- Be the first in CTF in the winning team with more death than frags (for Mirio )
- Frag someone midair with laser
- Frag someone midair with rocket (without secondary button blowing it up)
- Kill someone with mortar from more than XY unit distance
- Frag at least 3 guys with one single electro-combo
- Frag two guys in the same time with one nexshot.
- Make a midair frag with hagar secondary (crazy )
- Finish a map with a kill/death ratio at least 5

Yes, I like these. But we need FAR more, and different levels of them. I would like you guys to create a list of all of these. Instead of segmenting them throughout multiple posts, please take ALL the other lists and add their items into your own.. This way we can build a very large list. (A good amount would be around 50 or more... I don't really see a problem with having a lot. Infact, 100 would be better.)

The badges you made Kay, are very nice. But I again need more. You (or someone else) will need to make one badge for every achievement level. I would appreciate if you could send those pictures to me in png format with transparency though (I could do it myself, but no time right now). Just post a link to them on the forums once done. What I plan to do here is to have multiple levels (Possibly 3, possibly 5, possibly 10.. I want 5..) of difficulty on achievements.. You can only go to the next level of difficulty, if you have completed the last one. This means, if you haven't completed level 1, even if you get an achievement in e.g. level 2, you don't get the mark for that (Do you follow? Hard to explain). The list of achievements would work in a similar manner to the singleplayer campaign level list, but I don't know precisely how i'll manage this yet.

The only real hurdle right now is a profile system (Which i'm working on... But it's hard, as it has to deal with authentication and etc...) .......... Until this is created, we cannot start work on a ranking system. But until then, please do develop how you guys want this to work. I'll do the best I can All I need you guys to do is create artwork, create a list of achievements (A long one), and have fun with making layouts.. (Keep the layouts realistic/simplistic, Nexuiz can't do dynamically changing menus <YET>.)



P.S.: If there is a major typo in here, I don't care.

[cortez]

i dont like the idea, because

1) it is used in many games, so it can be called a poor rip of

2) it is overrated seems like its a must have

3) it would increases nexuiz size even more

4) you need to register/ create an account, goodbye 'just join a server and have fun'

5) of achievement server whivh are poping up/ achievement farming durning normal games

I speak from my experience with the TF2 achievement system

[Samual]

i dont like the idea, because

1) it is used in many games, so it can be called a poor rip of

2) it is overrated seems like its a must have

3) it would increases nexuiz size even more

4) you need to register/ create an account, goodbye 'just join a server and have fun'

5) of achievement server whivh are poping up/ achievement farming durning normal games

I speak from my experience with the TF2 achievement system

Well actually, 1 is irrelevant. Think about it this way, MANY MANY MANY games have a gun... But it's not really ripping it off if it's not EXACTLY the same.

2... No... I disagree... I just like the idea because it _IS_ cool.

3... Deal with it... it'll happen a lot By 2.6, we'll also have new models and new maps.. Better textures.. Etc... 2.6 will probably be over 1gb... Besides, a ranking system alone wouldn't be much disk space at all.

4... No, you have an option to either create an account, or play without an account.

5... ?.. Your english is horrible here.

[Kay]

Ok Samual nice that you want to make this, can I make the images of the medals (or whatever you call it)

and how about the level stars what you see in the scoreboard is that possible?
Just one star per tab of achievements or something like that:



then you can also see how skilled the players are before you join.


oh and cant we make something like the dcc servers have with their stats:

http://delight.vapor.com/stats.php?s=0

[FraNcoTirAdoR]

You are awesome as always Samual Hmm, about the grouping, maybe it shouldn't be bad something like fisume mentioned, different tabs for their hardness: Beginner, intermediate, hard, insane maybe...
My idea that this should worth another topic to open, where everyone can post their medal ideas, and the first post will contain them all, just to keep it organized. (only medals should be posted there and the discussions should continue here) After we collected many awards we can sort out what are the good ideas. Until we don't know what awards could be included its not possible to create icons for them anyways
Also that level thing should be quite cool, this could eliminate the problem what cortez mentioned that good players flood the newbie servers for medal collection. Players not logged in could have sth like not available, and for the logged players it should display their level based on some awards.

[cortez]

3... Deal with it... it'll happen a lot By 2.6, we'll also have new models and new maps.. Better textures.. Etc... 2.6 will probably be over 1gb... Besides, a ranking system alone wouldn't be much disk space at all.

errm new maps??? during the last years there are only a few maps add to nexuiz
better textures? the already make 50% of the size

4... No, you have an option to either create an account, or play without an account.

so you want to make it client based?

5... ?.. Your english is horrible here.

ok maybe you are familiar with achievement farming.
Player join a game just to get an achievement the are only focused on that achievement, so they dont care about team play. well that isnt a problem deathmatches

[Kay]

Yeah --FraNcoTirAdoR-- thats good,
im working hard on the medals right now

can someone make this sticky?

[Samual]

3... Deal with it... it'll happen a lot By 2.6, we'll also have new models and new maps.. Better textures.. Etc... 2.6 will probably be over 1gb... Besides, a ranking system alone wouldn't be much disk space at all.

errm new maps??? during the last years there are only a few maps add to nexuiz
better textures? the already make 50% of the size

4... No, you have an option to either create an account, or play without an account.

so you want to make it client based?

5... ?.. Your english is horrible here.

ok maybe you are familiar with achievement farming.
Player join a game just to get an achievement the are only focused on that achievement, so they dont care about team play. well that isnt a problem deathmatches

Achievement farming would be worthless. The way i'm going to implement this would make it impossible to get an achievement unless in a real match for X amount of time with X amount of points, etc etc. And no it won't be client based. Also, Nexuiz has had A LOT of new maps over the years. We just remove older ones. Infact 2.5.2 will have 4 new maps iirc. Anyway i'm done arguing with you, as you're going to oppose it anyway. You're like the one person against this while there are 50+ for it... So i'm continuing.

Ok Samual nice that you want to make this, can I make the images of the medals (or whatever you call it)

and how about the level stars what you see in the scoreboard is that possible?
Just one star per tab of achievements or something like that:



then you can also see how skilled the players are before you join.


oh and cant we make something like the dcc servers have with their stats:

http://delight.vapor.com/stats.php?s=0

I don't know about a web interface yet, but -z- said (The person who wants to host the account server system) he wants to make one. Anyway, i've seen the code for how that works and it's MESSY MESSY MESSY, and not cheat proof. So we can't do it that way. As for the stars.... I'm not sure if it's possible to put an image there, but I wouldn't do it that way anyway (Takes too much space on the scoreboard.... There is a reason we have a limited amount of columns). I don't know any other good way to do it, but i'll think something up. (Of course if we use a web interface, should be easy.)

Just an update of the methods we might use...
Client side of things: We are thinking about using an identification key that would be placed in the data folder by Nexuiz after you get an account. This key would make _your_ client, _your_ stats. And with this type of system, you're still free to pick whatever nickname you want - And you're still able to play completely without hassle from the get-go. (The only way to get an identification key is to request it from the account server.. I'll probably have a dialog that requires a key to open, if you have one it will show your stats and all that.)

Server side of things: Instead of having the server do a complicated handshake with the account server and the client very often, we were thinking about having the server record an event log for every single match. In this event log would be all information about the entire match, timestamped and etc. The event log would be sent to the account server at the end of a match, and would be processed then. This would allow the server to display to you your achievements for that match at the end of the match. Using this method, it would also record all cvars and cvar changes. What the account server will do is have a list of all cvars that cannot be changed, and if they are changed; the record is denied (Server is not standard). For example, if balance is changed on a server, or there is jetpack, these things would null out the ability to get achievements.

This system still has holes in the idea, but it's in its infancy

You are awesome as always Samual Hmm, about the grouping, maybe it shouldn't be bad something like fisume mentioned, different tabs for their hardness: Beginner, intermediate, hard, insane maybe...
My idea that this should worth another topic to open, where everyone can post their medal ideas, and the first post will contain them all, just to keep it organized. (only medals should be posted there and the discussions should continue here) After we collected many awards we can sort out what are the good ideas. Until we don't know what awards could be included its not possible to create icons for them anyways
Also that level thing should be quite cool, this could eliminate the problem what cortez mentioned that good players flood the newbie servers for medal collection. Players not logged in could have sth like not available, and for the logged players it should display their level based on some awards.

Not needed; Just continue the discussion here. And, achievement farming will not be easy, I assure you.

[Kay]

Ok i made some weapon medals, these look better.
(hmm very big pic)

its not done yet.

http://pisarowitz.com/nexuiz/achievements.jpg