IllFonic's Nexuiz

[cortez]

Kedhrin: why do you constantly refuse answers? Of course you need a site for your GDC show case BUT you said you want to support alientrap and the work they have done but at the moment you just destroy it

[Mirio]

What about the name?

[Samual]

Right now releasing things to the public is uncertain. There are a lot of things related to the SDK's for the consoles, etc. that do not allow for GPL usage. You have to keep in mind the content we are creating is a lot different than the content made for GPL Nexuiz. I know you guys would love to see it there. I just cannot give you a definitive answer on this right now.

This although I understand why is the most depressing part of this, as the worst quality of Nexuiz at the moment is poor models and artwork. Don't get me wrong, I appreciate all the artwork we have now considering it's done on everyones free time and without pay, but it obviously doesn't match up to that of what a company could produce with professional artists and a concrete theme/style of the game.

Now, that aside, I was one of the people who was notified about this long ago back when I was given commit access. This of course means I kinda dealt with the shock of the name and etc silently. Honestly, I don't care that it's using the same name. Although I REALLY would have preferred if you could have used some suffix to it, even if I can't think of a good one myself i'm sure others can. It's too late to change this now anyway. Well I mean, I have seen companies change the name of a game after announcing it, but I doubt you guys will do that. As for the source, I was under the impression that every artist and programmer was notified of this and was asked permission for this to happen. However this isn't the case, and some of the developers are quite upset about this. Lee already apologised, but i'm not sure how far that will go in the minds of most of the contributors.

This is a bit disturbing, especially since the project is open source and all contributions are by those who give their free time to do this. Also because you guys will be benefiting from this source code whereas the people who originally wrote the code get nothing, i'm sure you can understand how this is annoying. Sure we've gotten some benefits in the engine coding and there is discussion of re-writing player handling to be client side to have far better anti-lag, but this really is minor compared to what we've already done for you. In this sense I would appreciate some sort of return to the contributors, although it doesn't necessarily have to be payment as i'm sure you're already stressed for money and I know the "higher ups" received compensation. This part is directed at Lee Vermeulen: Maybe it would be beneficial to support the developers with useful software/tools such as Terragen2 for creating skyboxes or other things which could help the community, such as official Alientrap servers. Although that's NOT the best use for the money. Ask morfar or some other leader who can make a better suggestion. To be honest, if anyone deserves compensation for the work they've done, that person is div0. He has spent seemingly the most time on the project, and without him Nexuiz wouldn't even remotely be what it is now. [-z-] pointed this out with a video earlier, although you can't see the content of his commits in it. I encourage you to check the commit log and actually look at what he has done for both the engine and the game code in total.

I think in the very least, those who contributed the work should have a say in how the game is represented commercially and in how the gameplay turns out. I for one have a few suggestions, although you probably won't consider them. I heard a rumour that the game will only have TDM and CTF game modes in it, I think this is a bad decision. You don't want to remove certain aspects about a game which make it that game. For example, this game was primarily and originally a deathmatch game, and I think you should at least keep this game mode in there. There are some other examples, and I would like you to consider these playlists along with TDM and CTF:

Deathmatch: I'm sure you know death match is key to Nexuiz and Quake alike, it's something that simply cannot be removed as it is classic to the game. Although it may not be as popular as some other game modes, there are DM Nexuiz servers which get a lot of traffic. Another suggestion is adding a type of cage-match or 1v1 playlist, where you allow a matchmaking service to pin players against other players based on skill (Not sure if that's possible with DP currently though). Of course in general you should also allow people to join parties and do matches individually.

Last Man Standing: Essentially a battle to see who can survive the longest with a given amount of health and ammo along with no health regeneration. What happens is you spawn with a certain amount of lives, and every time you die of course you lose a life. When you reach zero lives left, you're forced to spectate other players and wait until the next round. The person who is last alive wins the round, and the person who is second alive comes in second.. etc.

Keyhunt: A game mode in which teams compete to collect all the keys. Essentially, each team spawns with one key carrier and the goal is for your team to collect all keys in the match. The team that accomplishes this goal wins the round and then the next round restarts. This continues until the score accumulates to the score limit, and this is the end of the match. This game mode is actually very very fun, the only problem is that it's hard to get this to work properly on public servers due to very few servers running it. I think with a bit more attention it could become almost as big as CTF if explained properly.

There may be others, but these are the primary ones which I think could be successful and are required -- Honestly the more playlists you have the better, or even customisable playlists like with Halo. Some other notes would be to at least attempt to keep some of the movement factors of Nexuiz, in fact consult some of the better players in the community about movement and please take their opinions on what you should do with the physics of the game. As for balance, keep it in the style of Nexuiz and i'm fine with it -- You guys seemed to have captured the style of Nexuiz which I have always envisioned, so I applaud you on that and I trust you to be able to come up with weapons that fit the game well.


Edit: Sorry for the large text block... Although there may be more coming after you respond. ^_^

[Kedhrin]

Could we get a list of tags of the people who had their content put in the game to insure that nobody got ripped off?

We are working with Alien Trap to make sure we get this covered.

[Aleator]

[quote]I heard a rumour that the game will only have TDM and CTF game modes in it, I think this is a bad decision. You don't want to remove certain aspects about a game which make it that game. For example, this game was primarily and originally a deathmatch game, and I think you should at least keep this game mode in there.[/quote]

I think is good if they don't have deathmatch on console. The gamers that want deathmatch can play the PC version. :D

[Irritant]

The Name: We decided to keep the name 'Nexuiz' for this release because the audience coming to the console version of Nexuiz will mostly be new to the game. There is a great divide amongst the new FPS Console crowd born out of the explosion of recent mega-hit FPS games on consoles. I can't mention here other mods and independent games turned into commercial games, but I'm sure some of you guys could name quiet a few. In my MOD days, it was always a dream to get your work picked up by a studio and turned into a commercial game. I know it's not like that for all of you. Some of you pride yourself on your work and proving that an independent scene can still exist. Our version of Nexuiz is targeting console players only right now. I cannot go into specifics about my speculations, but a lot of great things are possible for you guys out of this.

This paragraph is a little disturbing. First, let me preface this with I am an outsider to Nexuiz, in that I work on a similar game that more or less competes for the same types of players. However, I do play this game on occasion, and I have some friends in this community and who have worked on this game. I do care about what this game stood for, and it's future.

You decided to keep the name because the audience is new to the game? That makes very little sense. If it's a new audience that hasn't heard of Nexuiz, then you should use a new name. Now I can understand wanting to keep the name because the console version clearly will be a derivative of the original, but might I suggest something like "Nexuiz Championship"?

What is highly suspicious to me is, that you say "Our version of Nexuiz is targeting console players only right now". So are you saying that you are making a PC version at some point(which IMO would effectively kill the GPL version, or at the very least severely damage it), or are you saying that you'll be marketing towards PC gamers, which again, would be damaging to the original GPL game.

I think what is upsetting people the most around here is that the decision was made by people who are no longer actively part of the community or development. It doesn't seem very fair in my eyes that the people who were most important to the current game were left out of the process. I suspect they were left out because it was anticipated that the reaction would be very unfavorable. While I have personally have no problem with Lee trying to make some money off of the project, I can understand where a number of them might, for a variety of reasons.

IMO, the game looks promising(though I have doubts about this type of game on consoles due to the control system), and it's kinda neat to see the original maps and weapons with a new, fresh take. I don't think what you are doing is necessarily a bad thing, but as for how it benefits the original game, that really remains to be seen. You say you cannot go into speculations, but maybe doing so would alleviate some of the concerns, and get more people on-board with your project.

[Kedhrin]

Right now releasing things to the public is uncertain. There are a lot of things related to the SDK's for the consoles, etc. that do not allow for GPL usage. You have to keep in mind the content we are creating is a lot different than the content made for GPL Nexuiz. I know you guys would love to see it there. I just cannot give you a definitive answer on this right now.

This although I understand why is the most depressing part of this, as the worst quality of Nexuiz at the moment is poor models and artwork. Don't get me wrong, I appreciate all the artwork we have now considering it's done on everyones free time and without pay, but it obviously doesn't match up to that of what a company could produce with professional artists and a concrete theme/style of the game.

I agree with you on this, I know its a bummer to see this better looking content. But keep in mind these are all paid professionals working on this project. This is our hard work on this content that pays our bills. We simply cannot give it away for free at this time.

This is a bit disturbing, especially since the project is open source and all contributions are by those who give their free time to do this. Also because you guys will be benefiting from this source code whereas the people who originally wrote the code get nothing, i'm sure you can understand how this is annoying. Sure we've gotten some benefits in the engine coding and there is discussion of re-writing player handling to be client side to have far better anti-lag, but this really is minor compared to what we've already done for you. In this sense I would appreciate some sort of return to the contributors, although it doesn't necessarily have to be payment as i'm sure you're already stressed for money and I know the "higher ups" received compensation. This part is directed at Lee Vermeulen: Maybe it would be beneficial to support the developers with useful software/tools such as Terragen2 for creating skyboxes or other things which could help the community, such as official Alientrap servers. Although that's NOT the best use for the money. Ask morfar or some other leader who can make a better suggestion. To be honest, if anyone deserves compensation for the work they've done, that person is div0. He has spent seemingly the most time on the project, and without him Nexuiz wouldn't even remotely be what it is now. [-z-] pointed this out with a video earlier, although you can't see the content of his commits in it. I encourage you to check the commit log and actually look at what he has done for both the engine and the game code in total.

This is information you need to bring up to Alien Trap and not us. I see you pointed it at Lee, but I'm not sure if he is reading this thread or not.

I think in the very least, those who contributed the work should have a say in how the game is represented commercially and in how the gameplay turns out. I for one have a few suggestions, although you probably won't consider them. I heard a rumour that the game will only have TDM and CTF game modes in it, I think this is a bad decision. You don't want to remove certain aspects about a game which make it that game. For example, this game was primarily and originally a deathmatch game, and I think you should at least keep this game mode in there. There are some other examples, and I would like you to consider these playlists along with TDM and CTF:

Deathmatch: I'm sure you know death match is key to Nexuiz and Quake alike, it's something that simply cannot be removed as it is classic to the game. Although it may not be as popular as some other game modes, there are DM Nexuiz servers which get a lot of traffic. Another suggestion is adding a type of cage-match or 1v1 playlist, where you allow a matchmaking service to pin players against other players based on skill (Not sure if that's possible with DP currently though). Of course in general you should also allow people to join parties and do matches individually.

Last Man Standing: Essentially a battle to see who can survive the longest with a given amount of health and ammo along with no health regeneration. What happens is you spawn with a certain amount of lives, and every time you die of course you lose a life. When you reach zero lives left, you're forced to spectate other players and wait until the next round. The person who is last alive wins the round, and the person who is second alive comes in second.. etc.

Keyhunt: A game mode in which teams compete to collect all the keys. Essentially, each team spawns with one key carrier and the goal is for your team to collect all keys in the match. The team that accomplishes this goal wins the round and then the next round restarts. This continues until the score accumulates to the score limit, and this is the end of the match. This game mode is actually very very fun, the only problem is that it's hard to get this to work properly on public servers due to very few servers running it. I think with a bit more attention it could become almost as big as CTF if explained properly.

There may be others, but these are the primary ones which I think could be successful and are required -- Honestly the more playlists you have the better, or even customisable playlists like with Halo. Some other notes would be to at least attempt to keep some of the movement factors of Nexuiz, in fact consult some of the better players in the community about movement and please take their opinions on what you should do with the physics of the game. As for balance, keep it in the style of Nexuiz and i'm fine with it -- You guys seemed to have captured the style of Nexuiz which I have always envisioned, so I applaud you on that and I trust you to be able to come up with weapons that fit the game well.

Thank you very much for your feedback regarding this. Yes, we are only shipping with TDM and CTF. However, we are planning other game modes as DLC. There is no Deathmatch only in this version of Nexuiz at this time. I know that is going to be a big shock for a lot of you. Please do not think it won't ever be there, because it possibly could be implemented through DLC. Right now we are aiming at creating Team Based game play. This is based off current trends for console players and other factors which we'll reveal over time. I think once you guys see the entire picture as a whole of what we have planned (i cannot discuss it now) you will really like it.

[Kedhrin]

You say you cannot go into speculations, but maybe doing so would alleviate some of the concerns, and get more people on-board with your project.

Speculating what happens to GPL Nexuiz or Alien Trap is not my place. These are questions you guys should direct at Lee.

[Komier]

I wish they would have at least fixed the misspelling of "Nexuiz". They should call it "Nexiuz".

I also kind of wanted to make the console gamers feel bad while face-raping them with my mouse.

[MirceaKitsune]

There would be many questions to ask, and few come to mind right now. I do however have two questions I'd like to ask you Kedhrin.

Firstly, is there absolutely no way you may reconsider about the name and change it a little bit? I don't mean an entierly new name, but anything in it. Nexiuz, or Nexuiz Something...?

Second, I was curious if Illfonic would agree to something like this (mainly the homepage / logo part) if the devs of this project and other players would decide on it too (quoting from another topic):

In case we won't convince Illfonic to change their minds and the new game's name will remain Nexuiz. Maybe we can go the other way around, and rather than trying to separate the two games, make them a whole. The new Nexuiz is supposed to be for XBox / Playstation only, right? So if Illfonic promises (not only with words!) that their game will never be released for PC, then theirs can officially be the Nexuiz version for consoles while ours the Nexuiz version for PC, therefore keeping a single Nexuiz and drawing a clear line between the two. Of course this wouldn't fix anything... just thinking what the best thing to do at this moment would be.

Of course the differences would need to remain clear (that there are different teams working on each project and one is commercial while the other is not). If Illfonic are not the people we thought they are, they can turn nexuiz.com into an introduction page containing just two large logos. One would be called "Nexuiz for XBox / PS3 (or console) by Illfonic" and the other "Nexuiz for PC (GPL or other optional details here) by Alientrap", each leading to its page. That way the confusion would be cleared for BOTH projects, and BOTH would benefit from this. Anyone accessing nexuiz.com would find exactly what they're looking for, and Nexuiz would be kept whole under reasonable and clear conditions.