alientrap-forum-archives

by **nexbender** » Wed Sep 26, 2007 9:25 pm

Urmel wrote:Now that leileilol posted this (which may not really help, as you don't seem to have Linux on that laptop): this video chip should be one with Hyper Memory (or whatever ATI calls that), which is a hybrid between small "native" video RAM and shared memory. Anyway, shouldn't be a problem.

Still I'm doing hard in understanding which problems exactly you're suffering. If I were you, I'd enable auto recording to take a look if those "lags" are still recognizable there. If yes, I'd take a look at the demo on another box, and maybe you could upload that demo for me/us so we can have a look ourselves.

The ATI chipset on the work laptop does seem to have 256 megs of its own memory, at least according to the info I get from its BIOS*. And I dual-boot it with Linux, have fglrx for that - it sucks donkey turds but hey, it's ATI, no surprise.

OK, I'll record myself tonight at work. If I have shownetgraph and showfps 1 will those end up in the recorded file? And how will you tell when I pushy the little button and the game responded, didn't respond, responded incorrectly or late, or just went "bork bork bork" like the swedish chef? I suppose I could simultaneously record the keyboard clatter and colorful language.

*Dump from ATI Tray Tools:

Code: Select all: Display adapter ATI Radeon Graphics Processor (0x71C5) Core Name M56 SubVendor Unknown 103C SubDevice 309F BUS 1 Device 0 Function 0 Base Address 0 E0000008 Base Address 1 00004001 Base Address 2 F4600000 Base Address 3 00000000 Bus Type PCI Express SMARTGART Installed No Driver Version 07.4 Release Version 8.36-070314a3-044981C-ATI QuadBuffer Stereo Support No Catalyst Registry Path System\ControlSet002\Services\ati2mtag\Device0 ______________________________ Clock Information BIOS VPU 392.00 Current VPU 398.25 BIOS MEM 252.00 Current MEM 247.50 ______________________________ Overdrive Supported No ______________________________ Radeon PCI configuration space 00 01 02 03 04 05 06 07 08 09 0A 0B 0C 0D 0E 0F 00 02 10 C5 71 07 00 10 00 00 00 00 03 10 00 00 00 10 08 00 00 E0 01 40 00 00 00 00 60 F4 00 00 00 00 20 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 3C 10 9F 30 30 00 00 00 00 50 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 10 01 00 00 40 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 3C 10 9F 30 50 01 58 02 06 00 00 00 00 10 80 11 00 A0 0F 2C 01 60 10 08 00 00 01 0D 00 00 43 00 01 11 00 00 00 00 70 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 80 05 00 80 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 90 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 A0 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 B0 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 C0 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 D0 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 E0 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 F0 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 Hardware Information ASIC (Software) Method Family 63 Emulated Revision 10 Gfx Engine ID 3 VRam Bit Width 128 Installed memory 256 Hardware Information Direct hardware access Installed memory 256 Mb Memory Type DDR2 Memory Width 128 bit Tmu 4 ______________________________ Radeon Registers RADEON_BIOS_0_SCRATCH 20040002 RADEON_BIOS_1_SCRATCH 0100C000 GB_TILE_CONFIG 01410011 HWDREG_00000000 21000EAC HWDREG_00000001 00000001 HWDREG_00000002 00000000 HWDREG_00000003 0000000C HWDREG_00000004 240006C8 HWDREG_00000005 00000001 HWDREG_00000006 00000000 HWDREG_00000007 0000000C HWDREG_00000008 00000005 HWDREG_00000009 00000000 HWDREG_0000000A 00010090 HWDREG_0000000B 100FAC8F HWDREG_0000000C 44221100 HWDREG_0000000D 00073011 HWDREG_0000000E 00000000 HWDREG_0000000F 0F3FF01A HWDREG_00000010 0F3FF01A HWDREG_00000011 0F3FF01A HWDREG_00000012 0F3FF50A HWDREG_00000013 0F3FF01A HWDREG_00000014 0F3FF01F HWDREG_00000015 000000CA HWDREG_00000016 000001CA HWDREG_00000017 0000018A HWDREG_00000018 0000010A HWDREG_00000019 0000014A HWDREG_0000001A 0000060A HWDREG_0000001B 0000040A HWDREG_0000001C 0000001A HWDREG_0000001D 00000012 HWDREG_0000001E 00000017 HWDREG_0000001F 00008028 HWDREG_00000020 00000000 ______________________________ Video BIOS Information Version 009.012.002.007 Part Number BK-ATI VER009.012.002.007.021601 Date 2006/08/18 10:02 Vram Type DDR2 ______________________________ Controller Configurations Controller 0 Active Connections: -Monitor (CRT1) (0) 1680x1050x60 Controller 1 Active Connections: No Active Connections ______________________________ Displays supported by adapter 0 (1) Monitor (CRT1) 1 (2) LCD Panel (Laptop) 2 (4) TV 3 (8) Second Digital Flat Panel ______________________________ EnumDisplays Display Type 0, Extended Type 1 , Max Resolution 1920x1080 Display Type 2, Extended Type 0 , Max Resolution 1680x1050 Display Type 1, Extended Type 0 , Max Resolution 1024x768 Display Type 3, Extended Type 2 , Max Resolution 1680x1050 ______________________________ Loaded Displays Display 1 index 1 Display 2 index 61440 TV Index 4 ______________________________ Multi VPU State ulActiveAdapters 1 ulAvailableAdapters 0 ulCurrentAdapter 0 ulDongleCapabilities 0 ulDongleConnection -1 ulDongleDisplayIndex 0 ulPrimaryIndex 0 ulMVPUMaxFBSize 0 ulMVPUMaxPipes 0 ulMVPUMaxVisFBSize 0 ulMVPUState 65 State Bits NODISPLAYCONNECT NOINTERCONNECT ______________________________ Multi VPU Caps ______________________________ No additional information

by **Urmel** » Thu Sep 27, 2007 6:12 am

the netgraph won't be recorded, nor the fps. Doesnt matter. I'm frequently lagging while the netgraph is absolutely quiet and 0 ping. I don't think one can rely at all on lagometer and netgraph. Heh, and of course it will be you who will tell us at which time of the demo you see lags (if they show up), i.e. by typing a chat message.

I'd just like to know if some lags will be recorded, will show up when playing in slowmotion. What would definately be saved is packet loss when playing online.

Another thing is, do the lags occur both on local and online matches? Would be kinda interesting to know.

And forget about the VGA. I really dont think it's the problem. 80fps is quite okay for an X1600.

by **nexbender** » Sat Sep 29, 2007 3:31 am

Urmel wrote:the netgraph won't be recorded, nor the fps. Doesnt matter. I'm frequently lagging while the netgraph is absolutely quiet and 0 ping. I don't think one can rely at all on lagometer and netgraph. Heh, and of course it will be you who will tell us at which time of the demo you see lags (if they show up), i.e. by typing a chat message.

Well I forgot to type messages when I lagged, but I think it's pretty obvious from the demo. Anytime you see me land someplace stupid or obviously not where I meant, or fall off of something, or look down then back up for no apparent reason (weapon wouldn't switch to laser for jump), or dot someone with the nex only to have the shot appear after I'd already fired it and begun to peel out, or...you get the idea...those are lag. There's an unintentional rocket jump on the back top of enemy's tower where I had already switched to laser but it failed to register...classic. There are a dozen or so laser jumps that weren't pointed the right way, for no apparent reason (mostly lasering to increase speed at wrong angle). And a few funnies where I couldn't switch to shotgun, gave up and pinged an enemy with laser. The top of the tower rocket jumps were never at the angle I moved to. The two mortar jumps were intentional and purely for my own amusement.

Urmel wrote:I'd just like to know if some lags will be recorded, will show up when playing in slowmotion. What would definately be saved is packet loss when playing online.

Another thing is, do the lags occur both on local and online matches? Would be kinda interesting to know.

I don't know how to guage packet loss.

Lagging does occur on local matches as well, no significant difference I can feel, i.e., spend as often compensating for weirdness.

Demo is here.

To a lesser degree I get the same stupid behavior on my big home box. To reassure myself I'm not crazy I ran Sauerbraten, which is a "thick" client where damn-near everything except position happens on local box. I picked a busy DM pub, got on and started cleaning up. After I passed the admin's score (I started late), he kicked me. :roll:

by **Urmel** » Sat Sep 29, 2007 5:23 pm

nexbender wrote:I don't know how to guage packet loss.

I just press TAB and take a look at the scoreboard. No big deal

nexbender wrote:To reassure myself I'm not crazy I ran Sauerbraten, which is a "thick" client where damn-near everything except position happens on local box. I picked a busy DM pub, got on and started cleaning up. After I passed the admin's score (I started late), he kicked me.

lol, I hope we'll manage your probs soon and meet you on the nexuiz servers

by **Urmel** » Sat Sep 29, 2007 8:33 pm

Watched the demo. The lags are obvious on my box as well. AND it's quite familiar to me, it exactly looks like the lags I suffer when playing at work (going online over M$ exchange server). Or when I play at home while my daughter is watching vid streams or something, and I forgot to enable bandwidth control.

What makes me wonder is when you're saying it's no difference if you're playing online or local, at work or at home. Wow. Now you got me. I have no idea why this happens. Dammit! :oops:

Ever tried to mess around with cl_movement ?

by **KadaverJack** » Sat Sep 29, 2007 9:41 pm

@nexbender: try "gl_finish 1", that might help in case broken input drivers are causing your problem...

by **nexbender** » Mon Oct 01, 2007 8:24 am

KadaverJack wrote:@nexbender: try "gl_finish 1", that might help in case broken input drivers are causing your problem...

I had already tried setting gl_finish and cl_movement to non-zero values - both independently and together - and they only _increased_ lag. I'm not just talking on the laptop (ATI on XP), I mean the beefy home box (Nvidia on Linux) as well. I've been through Xeno's list of variables and read through other threads and I'm fairly certain I've exhausted the possibilities.

OK, I'd like to enter a minor correction (I'm thinking I should combine the two threads): I can almost eliminate all input lag on the _home_ box (not the laptop) by disabling absolutely everything and playing offline on a map that is not poorly implemented. Other than that, when I clicky the button, sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't, and sometimes (like just now) in the middle of match, out of sheer frustration, I just drop out of the game because I don't want to ruin other ppls good time by complaining. It is not my style. In fact it's not my style, generally, to _care_ about any one particular game, but this game is decent and, more importantly, the players are very decent and generally adult, which is so refreshing, really, I'm not sure if I'd care we were stuck playing pong (gross exaggeration, btw).

Urmel: I do play online. I'm usually on in the middle of the night (in California).

What boggles is that few other people have mentioned these problems and that a number of skilled players online do not appear to have these problems: they are able to get up to speed correctly (run, jump, jump again and hold down, land-jump, jump again and hold down, rinse, repeat), rely on hit-scan, and combo jump/laser-jump at the right time/angle. Since I can't, I'm basically stuck playing ketchup and close-quarters rocket/mortar whore, which allows me to be somewhat useful on a few CTF maps, but blah blah blah. Blah blah blah. Fffffffflllllpppppppppttttttttttt. Etc.

EDIT: Out of sheer masochism I'm going to get back online with the HOME BOX and demo a match on Galt's no-hook CTF server. I'll post it as a link in both this thread and the home-box thread.

by **nexbender** » Wed Oct 03, 2007 2:46 am

OK, just so I'm perfectly clear, I have completely given up on Nexuiz being playable on my laptop. I may still do it occasionally while at work, but um, yeah, either the network code is complete garbage or something in the engine is horked the hell up.

What am I basing this on? Simple f'ing logic. When I'm at home (home box), I kick ass, even though Nexuiz on my home box is still glitchy and input lags.

When I'm at work, I get my ass kicked, most times without even seeing what was going on.

If I sound worked up, it's because I really like this game and, more importantly, the vast majority of its players have good will and share a spirit of camaraderie and teamwork. This is the _only_ FPS I've ever played which I advocate to other people (and they've become regulars), the _only_ FPS where I've taken time to instruct newbies.

Cripes, maybe I need more work to do, hmm, Urmel? :lol:

EDIT: If you're a dev and you saw this and it pissed you off, good! I hope it pisses you off so much you contact me to beta test! :twisted:

by **Urmel** » Wed Oct 03, 2007 5:56 pm

Err, nah, I'm no dev at all, just someone with great experience how bad it can hurt to play over a company's internet connection. Additionally my job comes with a bunch of PC toys to test, and I'm always pissed off with sucking hardware

If you want to talk to the developers, you better connect to their irc channel which is #alientrap on anynet.org :wink:

by **nexbender** » Fri Oct 05, 2007 5:43 am

Urmel wrote:Err, nah, I'm no dev at all, just someone with great experience how bad it can hurt to play over a company's internet connection. Additionally my job comes with a bunch of PC toys to test, and I'm always pissed off with sucking hardware

If you want to talk to the developers, you better connect to their irc channel which is #alientrap on anynet.org

I know, but I really don't care that much now. For the gang who usually see me on, they know if I'm playing from home or work. Home = I rock. Work = totally useless. Hell, I can't even get up to speed or maintain speed properly, which is probably the single most annoying thing. I'm just going to blame it on Windows and leave it be. I'll play from home and that's it. Besides, I'm probably moving to a new job soon, where I will actually have to work occasionally, so the laptop will go bye-bye, which is fine. I hate this piece of crap.

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