no sound in glx since installed new ubuntu

[divVerent]

What however is dumb is breaking support for non-pulseaudio applications that way at a time when pulseaudio is far from supported by every application. It's basically repeating the artsd mistake again.

Also, I doubt Nexuiz will get pulseaudio support anytime soon. I looked at the pulseaudio API, and the simple API always blocks and thus is unsuitable, while the asynchronous API requires the main loop to be replaced by pulseaudio's, which would need quite large changes in the design of darkplaces. If anyone manages to do this, the patch may get applied, but until then DP will support ALSA and OSS only.

Also, we cannot make pulseaudio the default sound system of DP until it is in ALL distributions, as there can be only one compiled in sound system.

[SavageX]

Hmmm... I think ALSA can talk to Pulseaudio.

http://hg-mirror.alsa-project.org/alsa- ... ADME-pulse

This mostly looks like a configuration-challenge, not an API challenge.

Feel free to correct me.

[Alien]

Alsa has own mixer, no need for another loop:
alsa -> pulseaudio-> alsa.
Just because pulseaudio replaces esd and esd is used in gnome, no need to push another sound processing layer. What's wrong with sticking with alsa? Why not any other api like phonon?

I bash Ubuntu not without reason. In version 7 whatever it's name is, Ubuntu made old versions of radeon graphic cards useless, because it has upgraded to the newer Xorg and ATI drivers didn't work with it because of hardcoded version name. What do they expect? That average Joe knows that he needs to hexedit the driver to get it working.

[divVerent]

Well, apparently it is not set up that way in Ubuntu, but should be by default to make the transition easy. If that method works, it clearly is a Ubuntu bug and not Pulseaudio stupidity then

[SavageX]

Alsa has own mixer, no need for another loop:
alsa -> pulseaudio-> alsa.
Just because pulseaudio replaces esd and esd is used in gnome, no need to push another sound processing layer. What's wrong with sticking with alsa? Why not any other api like phonon?

ALSA is two parts: The library and the hardware drivers. What's wrong with libalsa -> pulseaudio -> hardware-driver?

At least Pulseaudio is not just Linux-only like ALSA, so in my book ALSA perhaps was a great step forwards when it comes to drivers, but not so great an API for applications to use.

I bash Ubuntu not without reason. In version 7 whatever it's name is, Ubuntu made old versions of radeon graphic cards useless, because it has upgraded to the newer Xorg and ATI drivers didn't work with it because of hardcoded version name. What do they expect? That average Joe knows that he needs to hexedit the driver to get it working.

Version 7? Do you refer to the current version, which is 8.10 and *did* ship with a pretty new X? That one ships with a fitting fglrx in the repository - or is actually the Xorg "radeon" driver broken? In the latter case I'd soundly say "ooops, but shit happens" and I assume a fixed package would be pushed via updates. (writing this on an Ubuntu 8.10 system with Radeon 9x00-something with free drivers. At home: Ubuntu 8.10 Radeon 3850 with fglrx. All up and fine - this of course and sadly doesn't mean things are as smooth for other people)

If the proprietary drivers from Nvidia/ATI break - well, I guess this merely demonstrates how weak the driver support from those parties is. It's not like new X releases suddenly fall from the sky, but still Nvidia/ATI seem to need a couple of releases to catch on.

Again, Fedora had the same problem. They're even more cutting-edge than Ubuntu.

[Alien]

OSS is also not linux only, but it was thrown away.
Adding additional layers increases sound latency.
Ok, the main alsa criticism is its api. But it's better to fix the api then to write another layer on top of that. Do you really think that macos (coreaudio) and windows (dsound/coreaudio(meh)) will use pulseaudio instead? Each OS has it's own API and that's ok.

7 version of Ubuntu is v7.0 and might have been called hardy, iirc. The problem was not ATI/Nvidia in that case. The problem was that older ATI drivers for older cards didn't work with newer X cause ATI stopped the drivers development for older cards. So instead of testing whether that X works with all cards, Ubuntu team pushed the release and left some of their users with crashing X if they installed "tested" proprietary drivers from Ubuntu rep. And because Ubuntu is meant for new linux users, do you really expect that they would know what to do with crashing X except reinstalling windows?

[divVerent]

pulseaudio indeed cannot be used with darkplaces when using the ALSA pulseaudio layer. No idea why, it is working fine with mplayer.

[divVerent]

Ah, the cause is fixed now. Someone in the ALSA team did something very weird in the "pulse" plugin. Please try a current engine compile and report if it works by default in ubuntu now.

[SavageX]

OSS is also not linux only, but it was thrown away.
Adding additional layers increases sound latency.
Ok, the main alsa criticism is its api. But it's better to fix the api then to write another layer on top of that. Do you really think that macos (coreaudio) and windows (dsound/coreaudio(meh)) will use pulseaudio instead? Each OS has it's own API and that's ok.

Pulseaudio isn't a layer on top of ALSA (the API) but a layer over the hardware driver. ALSA (the API) directly supports using Pulseaudio (not the other way round).

I was more thinking of Solaris and BSD. Those have mostly OSS and Pulseaudio available and not ALSA. This basically means that one has to support OSS anyway to have cross-platform support, making it weird that Linux has its own seperate API.

7 version of Ubuntu is v7.0 and might have been called hardy, iirc. The problem was not ATI/Nvidia in that case. The problem was that older ATI drivers for older cards didn't work with newer X cause ATI stopped the drivers development for older cards. So instead of testing whether that X works with all cards, Ubuntu team pushed the release and left some of their users with crashing X if they installed "tested" proprietary drivers from Ubuntu rep. And because Ubuntu is meant for new linux users, do you really expect that they would know what to do with crashing X except reinstalling windows?

You are saying that it's not ATI/Nvidia's fault but write "cause ATI stopped the drivers development for older cards." The reasoning behind them (=ATI) stopping fglrx-development was that there are open-source drivers available already (with 3D support), so why not let user use those free drivers?

ATI stopped support for the older cards, some setups broke. This was ATI's decision. Perhaps Ubuntu could have had some logic inside "aha, this is an old card and it's trying to use fglrx - so lets force it down to the Xorg radeon driver instead" - that would have been a nice neato. However, forever shipping an old Xorg is simply not an option. Again, I don't see where Ubuntu made a "dumb" decision, even if the transition could have been more smooth.

[Alien]

Dumb decision was providing unpatched drivers.