Unfair player + Cheater!!!

[Bnonn]

In commercial systems that doesn't work either. And it should be obvious to everyone that closed source games also have wallhacks, so the fact that it's easier to make one for an open source game is really beside the point. A good game will make wallhacking impossible (as Nexuiz does if you enable the correct server variable).

So again, cyan's argument is both stupid and wrong.

[cyan]

In commercial systems that doesn't work either. And it should be obvious to everyone that closed source games also have wallhacks, so the fact that it's easier to make one for an open source game is really beside the point. A good game will make wallhacking impossible (as Nexuiz does if you enable the correct server variable).

So again, cyan's argument is both stupid and wrong.

lol u telling me its hard to make a cheat/hack on an engine that is so old no one other than open source communities remembers it? - its not.

[k0jak]

Don't whine u can't prevent hackers in an open source game ffs. Its expected imo, i said this a year ago

God, your a grumpy git at times! haha

[cyan]

God, your a grumpy git at times! haha

I know

[Bnonn]

lol u telling me its hard to make a cheat/hack on an engine that is so old no one other than open source communities remembers it? - its not.

I have trouble replying to you because your posts are so incoherent and badly written, but I presume you're trying to say that the Nexuiz engine is easy to create cheats for. And obviously it is—except that it's also easy to patch so that the cheats become ineffective, and it's easy to enable server-side options to ensure that cheats won't work anyway.

So again, what the heck is your point? The most cheated-on game of all time must be CounterStrike, which to the best of my knowledge was never open source.

[LordHavoc]

lol u telling me its hard to make a cheat/hack on an engine that is so old no one other than open source communities remembers it? - its not.

I have trouble replying to you because your posts are so incoherent and badly written, but I presume you're trying to say that the Nexuiz engine is easy to create cheats for. And obviously it is—except that it's also easy to patch so that the cheats become ineffective, and it's easy to enable server-side options to ensure that cheats won't work anyway.

To our knowledge the only cheat that is truly a clientside exploit with no reliable method of prevention is aimbots, as they are simply producing valid input.

All others are some form of 'enriched playing experience' (radar/wallhack, glowing players, timers on how soon an item will respawn, replaced textures, replaced sounds, changed settings, etc), which can only make use of data the server willingly provides.

So again, what the heck is your point? The most cheated-on game of all time must be CounterStrike, which to the best of my knowledge was never open source.

I've been told aimbots exist that intercept rendering calls and stuff mouse input, which makes them completely unblockable, regardless of open/closed source.

I stand by my opinion that the problem is the punks (a category encompassing generally obnoxious players as well as cheaters), not the technology, and the only language they speak is consequences.

Bans are a simple form of consequences, but they only work if people can be identified.

The only people you can be certain are playing honestly are members of respectable clans, because respectable clans immediately discipline members found to be cheating or annoying other people, lest their reputation be tarnished.

Peer pressure works, everyone likes to have friends.

That said, there is another approach, which is matching annoyance with annoyance - make it unpleasant to be a punk, making votable one-hour single-IP bans be quick and easy would suffice to annoy punks, as they must either change IP address and rejoin, or go to another server (and most servers are empty!), and they can only be in one place at a time, so their annoyance factor is quite limited

[Vendor]

To our knowledge the only cheat that is truly a clientside exploit with no reliable method of prevention is aimbots, as they are simply producing valid input.

--snip--

I've been told aimbots exist that intercept rendering calls and stuff mouse input, which makes them completely unblockable, regardless of open/closed source.

Yep they do exist - these are the external apps that hook into running processes that I mentioned. They are very hard to stop, but NOT unstoppable. The only problem is that to some extent the methods of stopping them rely on obfuscation (aka security through obscurity), as anyone with the skills to code them would easily have the skills to bypass open-source anti-hook code (indeed some of these scumbags are very talented and have beaten CLOSED-source security code with debuggers).

Stopping cheaters relies on the following lines of defense:

1. Tight gamecode, with exploits closed asap by developers.

2. Admins contactable, skilled in spotting cheaters from demos, willing to ban players.

As for the bit about players from respectable clans being trustworthy, I am afraid we will have to agree to disagree on that issue. My experiences with catching cheaters is that clan players were no more or less likely to cheat, and that the clans, due to their close ties, would sometimes (not always) defend the cheaters despite clear evidence. Some people respond to the peer pressure of a clan by identifying with the camaderie and sense of honour that clans can encourage, some identify with the pressure to play hard, and be a strong player, and some take that to the extent of cheating to keep up.

The answer is obvious to me - only the under-25's kiddies cheat, so how about simply making downloads of Nexuiz available to the over 25's?

[Bnonn]

But I'm 24 D:

[KadaverJack]

But I'm 24 D:

Then you can't be trusted yet!
(same thing goes for me btw...)

[divVerent]

As if someone who calls himself Kadaverjack could be trusted next year...