Before anyone blames my connection....i can run fine perfectly other online multiplayer games.

In nexuiz i can't even play a 1on1 without lags...i never have EVER experienced so many lags during games, i play 1on1 a lot and it's so often during the matches it's really annoying me to the point i dont want to play anymore soon, it's not just pn.de (before you comment green), spinfusor even delight are both the same, this isn't a one off, this is over at least 2 months now and it's not just me.

It's not just me either i play other people in 1on1 and they all experience problems with lag as bad as me, i've not played on a public server for a while but they were never as bad im sure, but problem im having is why is there constant lagging in this game compared to other games....

...I never had half as many lags in 1.5 as i do now.

I'm pretty sure that it isn't just me who is affected nearly constantly..

I have had some lags lately too, tho i tought is was due to sharing my conn (and it proly is). does your ping go up, framerate go down or does it "just" feel laggy?

What are you referring to as "lags"?

- Slower response? LordHavoc disabled cl_movement for people with ping lower than 100 because he thought a bit of lag is better than jumping around due to mispredictions.
- Clock appearing? Cannot think of wha causes this, and it doesn't happen for me either.
- FPS? Yes, some maps do eat fps at some places...

I do experience lag as well. Anyway, I cannot be held as an representative for k0jaks statement (although I believe him and others that have the same problems), because:

- I only play 1on1s and as such cannot really jugde the difference to public servers
- WHEN I play public servers it feels MUCH worse for me than playing 1on1s (constantly "changing" frames and not only delayed movement (although having < 15 ms to the server) but also real "gaps"/"stuttering" in it - however, this might be because I...
- ...share this connection with several hundred people which means that I usually have 2-15% packetloss anyway .. so everything I say may be misleading as the connection could alter or amplify the symptoms of experienced lag.

But I do agree that the netcode does have problem .. or lets say .. it's much more interference-proned than the netcode of other games. As I didn't play Q3 online (no valid key) but some other games, I can say that I can play the other games much more fluently (which is of course also because they are older and don't provide ANY kind of framedrops, but movement is also very fluently, except if the PL got too worse it starts to chop for half a second too ... example: UT99 engine games)

just my 50 €urocents

PS:
often you can see how bad the performance of the netcode was by watching demos of these people ... sometimes they are choppy as hell (when watching them cl_movement should be set to 0 clientside, as this settings adds additonal choppyness when the demo was recorded using cl_movement). Sometimes even demos recorded without cl_movement don't play well ..

Yea i think green summed this up for me pretty much.

Seems to be a problem with the netcode, i do get stuttering at times (depending on the server).

divVerent wrote:What are you referring to as "lags"?

- Slower response? LordHavoc disabled cl_movement for people with ping lower than 100 because he thought a bit of lag is better than jumping around due to mispredictions.
- Clock appearing? Cannot think of wha causes this, and it doesn't happen for me either.
- FPS? Yes, some maps do eat fps at some places...

Clock appearing..oh god yes, so bloody often it's annoying, sometimes its so bad on servers (also when my connection is bad i admit), that it just 'freezes' with lag and that clock for 1-2 seconds then im normally dead, but even when my connection is good, it's still the clock every single game multiple times, and as i stated already im not alone.

yeah kojn, my fault! It's me - teh fukin' lag who pwnz0rs yoo all

No serious, I'm annoyed by lags pretty often as well. Recently me and StaniD setup a LAN server and it was teh great difference how fluently to play there. I remember there were times where I could play like that over the internet. Was it really 1.5? Methinks it was 1.21...

I have no idea if these are engine or ISP problems... could be ISP problems as well, given that the total traffic is ever increasing. I don't get these problems when connecting from home to university (100ms ping however)...

I could upload some of my demo's versus Throvold...and you'll see how bad it is..

divVerent wrote:I have no idea if these are engine or ISP problems....

As kojn already noted, it's Nexuiz where lags occur. So it actually can't be an ISP problem.

Then why don't I get these lags?

Maybe the ISPs the server are hosted are bad (in case of RBI servers, the university network in Frankfurt, Germany)? But for me at home (T-Online) that works fine.

Actually, I took the freedom to ping Demitar's IP (he often gets lag issues on my server) from my university server... I got:

Code: Select all

--- ****.broadway.se ping statistics ---                                                                                                                          331 packets transmitted, 274 received, 17% packet loss, time 329975ms
rtt min/avg/max/mdev = 57.837/78.775/100.143/7.457 ms

No, I don't expect DP or any other FPS engine to be able to cope with that much loss.

And I got the same amount of loss from my home connection to him.

Anyone who gets lag issues on my server, please try ping 141.2.16.3 (or on Windows, ping -t 141.2.16.3) for a while (maybe five minutes) and then press ^C to get the packet loss stats. I am sure you won't get 0% of packet loss.

Code: Select all

--- 141.2.16.3 ping statistics ---
768 packets transmitted, 753 received, 1% packet loss, time 767252ms
rtt min/avg/max/mdev = 135.512/140.208/207.571/6.137 ms


Not bad, but sometimes I do get lag spikes where I just have to quit. (it's fun to stop and look around while everything is frozen).
It's probably my wireless lan or my flatmates downloading teh pr0n.

sure, your flatmates

Beowulf wrote:

Code: Select all

--- 141.2.16.3 ping statistics ---
768 packets transmitted, 753 received, 1% packet loss, time 767252ms
rtt min/avg/max/mdev = 135.512/140.208/207.571/6.137 ms


Not bad, but sometimes I do get lag spikes where I just have to quit. (it's fun to stop and look around while everything is frozen).
It's probably my wireless lan or my flatmates downloading teh pr0n.

1% loss? That's more like 1.95%... and even 1% loss is quite much and should not happen.

It's interesting that ping truncates the percentage like that.
I think that for my amount of packet loss, the only culprit is my wireless connection.

divVerent wrote:I am sure you won't get 0% of packet loss.

divVerent wrote:even 1% loss is quite much and should not happen.

Sometimes I ask myself why Nexuiz is sucking for me although (or especially while!!!) ping is 0 and pl is 0% shown on the pingometer and while other players dont seem to hace any problems at all. But this happens only @work where at least a slightly busy exchange server is doing his stuff at the same time. Is it possible htat there is something else that can not be measured in pings or PL% ??

btw: min 14ms, max 87ms (huh), avrg. 15ms, PL: none (775 packets sent/received) > at home

Urmel... wrote: Is it possible htat there is something else that can not be measured in pings or PL% ??

Sure. Jitter - meaning that on average the ping may be okay but that the actual ping time per packet may fluctuate. If this happens "older" packets can be received *after* their successors are received, thus meaning they can be received in the wrong order. Delayed packets are basically useless, although technically they are not "lost" in the strict meaning.

Okay, I dont understand a word. Currently I played on pussydelight an it was thumpy like hell.

ping -t ran and it resulted as follows:


Pakete: Gesendet = 891, Empfangen = 891, Verloren = 0 (0% Verlust),
Ca. Zeitangaben in Millisek.:
Minimum = 18ms, Maximum = 33ms, Mittelwert = 19ms

This is some jitter, but not much - the numbers also indicate absolutely NO packet loss (1% is bad, but you got an exact 0%).

Can you try again with cl_movement 0 on the same server?

SavageX wrote:

Urmel... wrote: Is it possible htat there is something else that can not be measured in pings or PL% ??

Sure. Jitter - meaning that on average the ping may be okay but that the actual ping time per packet may fluctuate. If this happens "older" packets can be received *after* their successors are received, thus meaning they can be received in the wrong order. Delayed packets are basically useless, although technically they are not "lost" in the strict meaning.

Now this explains a lot! I have about the same problem: Stuttering up to a degree where it is unplayable sometimes and yet Nexuiz shows <30 ping and no packetloss.
I always thought: Damn, the packetloss value in the scoreboard must be wrong.

I know it's because my connection is shared with others, some are even watching video streams that eat up 80% of the bandwidth.
It's clear that there must be out of order packets, either with me when I'm playing or with the ones who are watching video streams.
Now the question is, why are out of order packets not counted as lost packets?
They are useless, that's for sure, the players' positions are already updated when they're received.

I experienced a lot jitter today too, on every server. Maybe it's the same for me

ZWERG wrote:Now the question is, why are out of order packets not counted as lost packets?
They are useless, that's for sure, the players' positions are already updated when they're received.

Because they are not totally useless afaik. The can still contain information like chat messages, that would be resend by the server if those packets are marked as lost.

Oh yeah, I like it when my chat messages take up to 2-3 seconds to appear (thats because actually only my upstream is affectedby bad performance/PL).

Thanks for the explanation SavageX, you gave me the missing link

Seems to be an epidemic situation.... dang! Anyway, what can we do about it? How do other games solve those problems? Any ideas?

1. There is not much Alientrap can do about the engine. Since it's probably only LordHavoc that understand the netcode.

2. Alientrap can optimize the QC code. And as I understand it, the QC code is a nightmare to de-mess. But it should be done sometime!

I don't know which one of these is the biggest problem. It should be investigated.